Determing the value of a gun.

[Rich Stearns]

I have been reading all the information on this site and in the collector section one of the suggestions to find out an idea of price is to post shots of the gun and let the members chime in. (From this site it says: I would encourage you to use this site as a first step in determining the "value" of your gun. There are many of us here that can help you. The "dollars and sense" will come later very naturally).

From your earlier help this is what I know about the gun.
1926 Parker shotgun,
12 gauge,
A1S,
Peerless barrels,
#No. 8 grade,
single trigger,
30-inch barrel,
#2
217264
I have had this for years and knew it was worth money but it is very confusing to figure out how much it might be worth

[CraigThompson]

Review the big auction sites for A-1 Specials and see prices they’ve brought . But read the full description . As I’m sure you’re well aware there are many factors that’ll dictate the worth or projected worth of something . Condition , gauge and rarity of configuration to name a few . Check Rock Island , Morphy’s , Poulin’s and Guyette an Deeter . All past auctions for final price buyers premium included as that’s what someone was willing to pay at the time of the sale .

[Craig Larter]

To me it appears as if the blueing and wood have been restored which will affect the value. The last G&D auction had a 12ga A-1 with 34" barrels that didn't make it's reserve. The estimate was 90-140K.
Great gun thanks for the pictures, we can only dream of owning such a fine Parker.

[edgarspencer]

What do you mean #242487?

[Rich Stearns]

Serial number 242487

[Rich Stearns]

I have been in the possession of the gun since the 1970's. My father had it since the early 50's. I assure you this gun has not been refinished. It has sat in a case and cleaned occasionally for the last 70 years. Harry Nye Jr. who inherited the gun in 1933 when his father died, didn't shoot. So as far as I can tell the gun has not been shot (maybe once by my father) for over 90 years.

[Rich Stearns]

This gun has always been given away. It has never been for sale. Two from the Nye family and two from the Stearns family. Harry Nye gave it to Dick Stearns in the early 50's for a suit of Star boat sails and they were friends.

[Eddie Kay]

Being that it's a give away gun my birthday is Oct 1.:)

[Bill Murphy]

As is mine.

[John Dallas]

As is mine. As was Jimmy Carter

[Chuck Bishop]

For insurance purposes, insure for at least $100,000.

[edgarspencer]

Serial number 242487

I'm confused.. The gun shown in your photos has 217264 on the trigger bow. Since 242487 is not in the Serialization book, there's no way of knowing what it is.

[Chuck Bishop]

His gun is 217264

[Rich Stearns]

Here are the numbers on everything I can find. I can take more.

[CraigThompson]

For insurance purposes, insure for at least $100,000.

I believe for insurance purposes I’d add 60k to that number .

[Dave Noreen]

According to The Parker Story, there were 79 Quality A1 Specials built. Fifty-five of them were 12-gauges and of those 35 had 30-inch barrels. Which means you have the most common spec A1 Special.

I agree with Craig. Much of the gun has been refinished at some point in time. There are many parts of 217264 that are finished in ways that are certainly not the Meriden norm.

[Rich Stearns]

The only history I don’t know of the gun is post 1951. It could have been refinished then I suppose. Harry Nye’s daughter is still alive I will ask her.

[Rich Stearns]

What pictures would I have to take to see refinish work on the gun?

Now you even have my wife wondering about it! It is like my 1967 Cadillac with 25,000 miles on it, everyone says it has to have more miles, but I have had it since 1982 it just sat around.

[edgarspencer]

His gun is 217264

I get that, Chuck, But I don't understand the reference to the other SN shown in the first post.

What pictures would I have to take to see refinish work on the gun?

Now you even have my wife wondering about it! It is like my 1967 Cadillac with 25,000 miles on it, everyone says it has to have more miles, but I have had it since 1982 it just sat around.

There's no missing that Caddy. Wasn't it Mary Kay, or one of the cosmetic companies that gave Pink cars to the their top sales people?

The only feature, of non-Parker origin on your gun, that jumps out at me is the gold wash on the Deeley latch on the fore end. Close scrutiny might suggest refinished barrels, but certainly well enough.
Who is to say with any certainty what the value is? Listed on One of the sites, or on the shelf in a top shelf gunshop, It might languish at $80K-$100K, but put it front of the right two bidders in a quality auction, it could bring $125K or more. As Dave says, the configuration might hold it back some. I do recall a 20ga. Hershell Chaddick had, many years ago that went well north of that.

[Reggie Bishop]

A 16 gauge A1 Special has been sitting idle at a top shelf gunshop for a number of years priced around $159k. The buyers at that price level are few I would imagine.

[edgarspencer]

I see the OP edited his first post, so 242487 isn't applicable anymore. Sure had me going there for a bit.

[Rich Stearns]

Sorry

[Rich Stearns]

Thank you all for your input. How would I figure if the latch has been changed? Was that something that happened early on in a Parker guns life? Were they so poorly constructed that it would have broke right away? Is it a common Parker flaw? Just interested because I know so much of the history for over 70 years of the guns life I am surprised Parker would have made such a poor product that it would have failed and been replace before my father got it in the early 50's. I am getting info form this site by mail maybe they will have more info on it. Sort of dissapointed that Parker would have such quality problems. I had in my mind these were good guns not just show pieces.

[edgarspencer]

Rich, You misunderstood my comment regarding the latch. What I was saying is it appears someone applied a gold wash to the latch lever. I'm sure that it was not replaced. This can be confirmed as it has the sn stamped to the underside of the body of the latch. They are durable, and while I have seen the small flat spring broken, even that is a rare occurrence.

[John Davis]

Rich, rest assured there’s nothing poor about a Parker and I seriously doubt anything has been repaired or replaced on your exquisite gun. And no one has suggested that it has been. Now whether or not it has been refinished is another matter and a hard call to make, especially when all you’re looking at are some pictures. For a gun like this one, you need an in person inspection by a very experienced and knowledgeable collector. And probably more than one.

[Rich Stearns]

Thank you all. Here are some close-up shots. What is a gold wash? How is it different from gold plate? The only number I can see on the latch is a 4. The other thing that I have always wondered is do you think the gun came with the pad on the stock? There is not much gold on this gun. Only 2 small screws or rivets on the receiver and on the barrel a small line.

[Rich Stearns]

On the last picture next to the number what does it say?

[Steve Huffman]

Rich does a magnet stick to the gold latch itself?

[Rich Stearns]

Yes, a magnet does stick to both the latch and the trigger which is also gold colored. Attached is a picture of the trigger. The trigger has the Parker Peerless logo on it so I assume it is gold plate. See picture.

[Rich Stearns]

there is a stamp I can't read on the right side of the trigger. It is hidden, sort of.

[Rich Stearns]

At closer look the marking on the latch might not be a 4. Here is a blow up of the shot

[Buddy Harrison]

Rich, The wording following the serial number in one of your latter pictures appears to me to read "PATD May ? 1907"

[Dave Noreen]

The stamping on the ejector forearm irons is "PATD,MAY 7,1901" the date of King & Hayes Patent No. 673641 covering the ejector mechanism.

[Rich Stearns]

Thank you. I would have never figured that out

[Rich Stearns]

Thank you I guess this site can figure anything out on this gun. Once you know what it is I see it.

[Dave Noreen]

The only feature, of non-Parker origin on your gun, that jumps out at me is the gold wash on the Deeley latch on the fore end.

FWIW the Parker Bros. forearm latch is not a Deeley. The Deeley & Edge latch was patent protected (U.S. Patent No. 140482 granted to J. Deely & J.S. Edge, Jr. July 1, 1873) and licensed to E. Remington & Sons April 24, 1879, and was used on their Model 1879 lifter and all top-lever models.

The Parker Bros. forearm latch was a Charles King design Patent No. 201816 granted Mar. 26, 1878, a date often stamped on the latch.

The forearm latch and the metal tip of the forearm were normally color case hardened, not blued and gold washed as 217264 now is.

[John Davis]

The operative word here is “normally.” Never say never with a Parker.

[Craig Larter]

So zero case color and 100% blue on major parts. Gold and blue on components never before seen on a Parker. 1950's white line recoil pad. Stock finish and detail look redone. It's a great Parker but I still believe it has been restored, refinished at some point. Just my opinion as a Parker student in training.

[Dave Noreen]

The other thing that I have always wondered is do you think the gun came with the pad on the stock?

Perhaps the letter from Chuck will reveal if 217264 started life with a recoil pad or not, but it certainly did not have the IMPERIAL "White Line" you have pictured. Fray-Mershon was founded in 1935, but by 1948 it was Mershon Company, Inc.

Here is a link to an earlier thread on Parkers and Mershon recoil pads.

https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5709

[Eddie Kay]

Didn't Pachmayer restore shotguns years ago?

[Rich Stearns]

Opinions are good. Until about 15 years ago all I kenw about the gun was Harry Nye (worlds champion Star Boat sailor) gave the gun to my Father Dick Stearns for a suit of sails for his boat. 15 or so years ago Ted Turner Jr. along with his 1/2 brother and his mother crewed with me and my father on a boat in the Chicago Mackinac race. Just about the first thing Ted asked me was where is the gun? So then I knew it was more than just a gun. But Ted Jr would have never seen the gun it would have just been stories he heard from one side or the other of the family. I suspect now my father could have put the butt pad on it when he got the gun so it would fit him. That would be around 1951. I know he never had it refinished but it could have been refinished prior to 1950. I am 70 years old and know exactly where the gun has been since 1955. That is in a closet in a case. I hunted and shot skeet with my father but he usually used a Davis gun. I have Brownings from the 1960's I use (12 and 20). Just fun info.

[Phil Yearout]

So he didn’t actually “give” the gun, he traded it for a set of sails. Minor point of no real import, but just sayin’…

[Rich Stearns]

When the company reopened after WW2 my father Dick Stearns and Harry Nye were supposed to be partners. Harry had no interst so the company "Murphy and Nye became my fathers. So yes he did pay for the gun with a suit of sails but they were close friends I don't think Harry used the gun it was his father's who has died in 1932 or so.

[Scott Janowski]

Could you possibly take a picture of the complete stock so we can see the wood and pad?

[Rich Stearns]

Here are shots of the stock ans one other shot of the wood

[edgarspencer]

I may have missed it, but could you show a shot of the grip cap. I presume it is gold, and initialed.

[Rich Stearns]

Here is the grip cap. Gold, no initials. Thank you for asking, to be honest I have never looked very closely to this. The camera really picks up detail. Now I really can't wait from the letter from this organization to see what is known about this gun.

[Scott Janowski]

Rey nice. It there a letter available for this gun?

[Rich Stearns]

I have sent in the request for a letter and my $40

[Patrick Butler]

Refinished or not, it is a rare and beautiful shotgun. Does Parker always mark guns that are returned to the factory?

When you get the letter I would be interested to know if it came with a skelton buttplate and if so, where it might be.

[Dan Steingraber]

You own a rare and stunningly beautiful piece of Parker history with wonderful provenance. Like many rare collectibles, the only way to truly know it's value is to offer it for sale in a well publicized venue. If it were mine I would have it insured for at least $75k. The butt pad is a pretty good sized wart. I'm not suggesting that you would realize that in a sale, but the likelyhood of finding another one is small.

[David Noble]

If it were mine I'd find a period Silvers pad, or a new reproduction to put on that gun.
Anything to replace that white line Pachmayr.

Awesome gun otherwise.

[Rich Stearns]

Now I have another question to answer about the gun. I will keep you posted.

[Russell E. Cleary]

With respect to the advisability of retaining or replacing the white line shoulder pad: Has Rich Sterns indicated unambiguously that he is seeking the Parker gun’s value preliminary to selling it? Or is that something that goes without saying, given the unmistakable signs, as recognized by advanced Parker collectors?

Anyway, fantastic provenance, as said, and not the first time we have heard of a gifted high-grade Parker being retained, unshot, unused, but placed in long-term storage out of gratitude and respect by a family member whose interest was in sailboats and sailing, not guns and gunning.