Chambers Lengthen?

[Ray Justice]

My newest toy is the 20ga Trojan it has 26" barrels...IC/IM chokes...IT KICKS! I have BAD AUTHRITIS IN MY BACK and this little LIGHT gun just seems to KICK a little more than is comfortable. I shoot only sporting clays...and not really very good...LOL....7 1/2 lead shot shells from Walley World...Rem. or Fed. which ones they have. Was thinking about having the chambers lengthened? Will that take any value from the gun? Will it help with the perceived recoil? I can RELOAD...Just found a recipe...Win. AA Shell 7/8 Load, 1250fps, 17.5 IMR 20/28 Powder, Windjammer Wad @ 8690 Pressure.
Maybe this will help? ANY ADVICE?

[Ed Blake]

If you can reload, shoot 3/4 oz. loads. Clay buster sells the wads. Recoil is minimal and the targets really break.

[Joe Wood]

IMO lengthening chambers won't help significantly with the recoil. Ed is correct, just work up a light load for a light gun. It'll still kick and be noticeable on a round of SC but maybe be bearable. I have a 0 frame 16 with 26" barrels that is a great field gun but when I shoot a round of skeet--steady shooting--it just knocks the stuffings out of me. And that's with light short hulled hand loads. Welcome to the undisclosed world of light guns!

[Joe Wood]

Oh, meant to mention--if it wouldn't make the length of pull too long, buy a leather Galco slip on pad even if your gun already has a pad. It has about 30% more surface area to contact your shoulder and will really help reducing perceived recoil. On a twenty gauge the size will be either a medium or a small. Measure the butt and order accordingly. If the added length is too much you can easily remove the rubber insert in the Galco pad and then you won't be increasing the length more than 1/8".

[Gerald McPherson]

Me too. I feel older than my guns looks. LOL

[David Holes]

Reduce your velocity and that will reduce your recoil.

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

Short chambers and/or very short forcing cones can cause a significant increase in perceived recoil in SOME guns. I experienced this with a Lefever DS 20 gauge and another well know PGCA member recently had a similar experience with a Parker 10 gauge. Lengthening the chambers tamed the recoil in both guns.

In most cases short chambers won't cause any noticeable increase in recoil. To verify if the perceived excessive recoil is caused by short chambers first try shooting the same equivalent load (shot load weight and muzzle velocity) in the appropriate length shells for the chambers. Also have another shooter or two try both short and standard loads in a blind test.

There is also the possibility that different shell/load of the same equivalent will NOT cause excessive recoil. Try a few different brands and find out. The thickness of the case/hull walls can be the cause of excessive recoil. Winchester AA and Remington RXP have thinner walls than lower cost shells. A thicker case wall may cause the payload to be forced through the combination of extra case wall and sharp forcing cone. A raise in pressure may occur in this example. In rifle cartridges seating the bullet into the lands rather than allowing a short "free-bore" increases pressure. If measured, the same may be true of a standard shotgun cartridge being shot in a short chamber WHEN excessive recoil is perceived.

If necessary, rather than lengthening the chambers the forcing cones could instead be lengthened. I occasionally shoot 3" shells in 2 3/4" chambers for which I have lengthened the forcing cones with no . This insanity caused no excessive recoil other than the increase from the heavier shot charge and velocity of magnum shells. Lengthening chambers or forcing cones can reduce perceived recoil IF excessive recoil was experienced. Before you modify anything, first conduct a controlled blind test as described above.

Respectfully,
Mark

[Ray Justice]

Thank you very much....GREAT ADVICE! I will give these a try. I do enjoy the "CARRY" weight...It just is not enjoyable after 50 rounds...I catch myself "Flinching" THANKS!

[Bruce Day]

The recoil formula has three components: 1) weight of gun; 2) weight of everything that shoots out the end of the barrel, e.g. shot, wad and gas; and 3) the speed at which they go out.

Increase (1) or decrease (2) and/or (3) to reduce recoil.

Parker recommended the following for 20ga loads for pattern and gun efficiency:
1) 3/4 oz shot at 2 1/4dre.......this runs about 1130fps
2) 7/8 oz shot at 2 1/2dre.......this runs about 1150fps and would be Parker's heavy load.

You will see that at 7/8oz and 1250fps, you must be shooting close to a 3 dram load, and in excess of Parker's recommended max , see Parker's "The Small Bore Shot Gun" p. 9. The load probably kicks like a mule. P. 9 identifies what I believe to be a custom load of 7/8oz at 2 3/4dre, probably about 1220fps and states" Not recommended by us and not loaded by leading companies". This is at least what you have been shooting.

If at some time you really feel a need for a kick in the teeth, try a 1 oz load in a Parker 20, what commercial manufacturers call a standard 20 ga hunting load.

Winchester AA 20ga standard fired length for 2 3/4 marked shells:

[Ray Justice]

I was hoping to get away from the 3/4 oz shot...I love my 28ga Hulu....just thought with this light 20ga gun and increase the amount of shot just might give me another clay or two. I know there are just a few more shot in the 7/8...but was hoping they might be WELL PLACED...LOL. Thanks again. What a great place for info. You folks are GREAT! Thanks

[James L. Martin]

I just got in from shooting skeet and 5 stand ,I used a 12ga VHE with 3/4 oz shot for skeet and 7/8 oz for 5 stand. Once you start using the lighter loads you won't go back to the heavy stuff, really very little difference in score and much more enjoyable. In my 20ga parkers all I shoot are 3/4 oz loads for skeet, give them a try.

[Bill Murphy]

If recoil is your problem, loading a proper load is the solution. Your load is unacceptable. A 7/8 or 3/4 ounce load at 1175 fps will break any birds just fine. 1250 fps is something most of us haven't loaded for years, except for competition live pigeons.

[Ray Justice]

I will Give These a try! Thanks

[Paul Harm]

I shoot 3/4oz in my 12ga guns - cost and recoil are why. And Pastor, you'll break [ or miss ] as many birds as you will with 7/8, 1, or 1 1/8oz of shot. Think of it this way, you'll get better patterns in the larger bore gun with less shot than you would with the same amount of shot in the smaller bore. And being a Pastor and all, you should know Hulu is a four letter word, and should not be spoken. Amen

[Ray Justice]

LOL !!! That is funny! The HULU Part. I can see what you folks are saying...I have noticed my Fox 12 gauge with a 7/8 0z load and about 1150 fps PATTERNS EXCELLENT! And I shoot it as well as any...JUST REAL HEAVY... OK, I will take another look at some reloading with 3/4 oz loads for the NOT HULU! LOL Thanks for all the great info.

[Justin Julian]

Low recoil and convenience are why I just order RST untralight 2 1/2" shells by the case for my vintage doubles. There's no better shell out there that I know of in terms of lethal patterns, low pressure and mild recoil to protect century old barrels and stocks from damage. My only complaint with the RSTs is that they do seem to leave significantly more fouling in the bores than standard shot shells, but a little more cleaning after shooting is a small price to pay for all the benefits they deliver. Plus, I just think there's something cool about shooting those 2 1/2" shells in an original 2 1/2" chamber. It somehow seems to add to the experience.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Ditto on the RST shells buy em! gary

[Ray Justice]

RST I know about these....GREAT!! SHELLS!!!!

[Daryl Corona]

RST makes great shells and I shoot about 2-3 flats a year but I must reload for the volume of shooting I do. If not I would be bankrupt buying factory loads. As it is I've got all my gauges that I regularly shoot, 12,16,20,28 down to 3/4oz @ 1150 or so fps. and have not seen my scores drop. The only thing I've noticed, and in a big way, is that recoil is not in my shooting lexicon any more. I shoot alot of 20ga. Parkers and Foxes with 2.5" chambers and the 3/4oz. load in a 2 3/4'' shell is simple delightful. By the way.... what is a HULU?

[Ray Justice]

Sorry for the spelling...HUGLU (CZ) so maybe it really isn't a four letter word...LOL 28ga and a 16....so far they shoot as well as I can!!! LOL I do thank ya-All for the great info. and what a great group to be a member of.

[Paul Harm]

whew, glad you cleared that up. Hate to think of a Pastor swearing so much. I feel better now.

[Leighton Stallones]

My suggestion would be to load 7/8 at 1150ish ft/sec with a slower or progressive powder such as Pb, Unique or Herco. I think that would make a big difference.

[Paul Harm]

Reloding can be a great cost saver, although it takes a bit to get set up. Used Mecs are always for sale at my club for under a hundred. Buying in quantity helps a lot. Promo powder is about the cheapest and loads the same as Red Dot. When you get ready, go on our reloading forum - there will be be lots of help.