Barrel Analysis

[Stepmac]

I have only shot my GH damascus gun a few times and with RST shells. Since it is F&F I have not found too many reasons to shoot it. I shoot a Parker SBT at trap, it has a Titanic barrel. My other damascus gun is a 1900 L.C. Smith O grade. It's bored IC and Mod. I've shot it at skeet with RST shells and regular Win, and RIO trap loads.

My two damascus guns have very nice barrels. The bore of the Elsie is a bit rough, and the Parker GH bore is like new. I think it has been honed.

Think about it. How many damascus guns have you heard about letting go lately? How about none. We do, from time to time hear about shotgun barrels exploding, but it is usually modern liquid steel barrels who blew do to an obstruction.

Moral of the story? I'm going to shoot my Parker and Elsie damascus barreled guns with confidence. I don't think I'll put Mag or high base shells in them. I have other old guns that'll handle higher power loads. A Fox Sterlingworth for one...Also an ancient Browing Auto 5.

[Drew Hause]

Still hoping to accumulate more pre-WWI fluid steel samples for tensile strength testing and composition analysis.

More information:

The Sampling and Chemical Analysis of Iron and Steel, 1915
By Oswald Bauer, Eugen Deiss, William Thomas Hall
http://books.google.com/books?id=03w6AAAAMAAJ&dq
p. 96, 103 Basic Bessemer steel
Carbon 0.07 - 0.09%
Manganese 0.40 – 0.48%
Phosphorus 0.05 – 0.08%
Sulfur 0.05 - .07%

Remington “Decarbonized Steel” and Parker “Plain Steel” were Bessemer process steel, as was Winchester Standard Ordnance “Rolled Steel” and Marlin “Special Rolled Steel”. A 1925 Union Hardware & Metal Co., Los Angeles listing for the Crescent Empire No. 60 states “Decarbonized Steel” barrels. Crescent barrels were labeled "Armory Steel".

Walt Snyder graciously shared a 1919 Ithaca Gun Co. letter from A.P. Curtis, General Manager requested tensile strength testing on a section “cut from a barrel made in Belgium” to be performed by E.J. Stormer of Racine, Wisconsin. The letter did not indicate if the barrels were “Smokeless Powder Steel” used on the Field grade, also commonly found with the ‘LLH’ mark of Laurent Lochet-Habran, “Fluid Steel” or “Nitro Steel” used on the No. 1 and No. 1 1/2, Cockerill Steel used on the No. 1 Special, or “Best Fluid Steel” and Krupp on higher grades.
Tensile strength was reported to be “about 70,000” psi.
Carbon .32%
Manganese .78%
Phosphorus .018%
Sulphur .033%
No chromium nor nickel

Winchester Nickel Steel from Bethlehem Steel Co. Jan. 1900
http://books.google.com/books?id=Yzh...J&pg=PA181&lpg
Carbon .50%
Phosphorous .026%
Manganese .77%
Sulphur .037%
Nickel 4.0%
Tensile Strength 106,900 psi

Nickel Steel in Halcomb Steel Co. “Catalogue and Hints on Steel”, 1913
Carbon .20% = tensile strength 82,000 psi
.30% = tensile strength 93,500 psi
.40% = tensile strength 94,000 psi
Manganese .50-.80%
Phosphorous and Sulfur – not over .04%
Nickel 3.25 – 3.75%

Modern AISI 4140 Chrome Moly Steel
Carbon .38 - .43%
Phosphorous .035%
Manganese .75 – 1.0%
Sulphur .04%
Chromium .80 – 1.10%
Molybdenum .15 - .25%

Modern AISI 1018
Carbon .14 - .20%
Phosphorous Below .04%
Manganese .60 – .90%
Sulphur Below .05%

DAVE: with your permission I could add your 4 barrel results to the thread

[Autumn Daze]

Go right ahead Doc.

[Drew Hause]

Thank you Dave.


Sample of Parker barrels analyzed by Optical Emission Spectroscopy (OES) and published in the Summer 2014 Parker Pages by Dave Suponski

Titanic Steel (likely pre-WWI)
Carbon .32%
Manganese .70%
Phosphorus .033%
Sulphur .077%
Nickel .078%
Chromium .031%
Molybdenum .003%

Trojan Steel (likely pre-WWI)
Carbon .35%
Manganese .84%
Phosphorus .03%
Sulphur .025%
Nickel .04%
Chromium .02%
Molybdenum .004%

Vulcan Steel
Carbon .27%
Manganese .68%
Phosphorus .062%
Sulphur .052%
Nickel .01%
Chromium .008%
Molybdenum .002%

Parker Steel (1926)
Carbon .09%
Manganese .83%
Phosphorus .094%
Sulphur .074%
Nickel .007%
Chromium .014%
Molybdenum .003%

[Drew Hause]

Tried to post a side by side comparison of all the steel samples for which I have results, but the format doesn't work. I have it as a Word Doc and would be happy to send by an e-mail attachment if someone would like it
drewhausemd@yahoo.com

1905 Krupp Chrome Nickel Steel Brand "D"
0.5% Carbon
3.26% Chromium
0.16% Manganese
1.26% Nickel
0.04% Phosphorus
0.11% Silicon
0.03% Sulphur

Krupp Fluss Stahl :
0.45% Carbon
0.035% (up to) Phosphorus
0.70% Manganese
0.25% Silicon
0.035% (up to) Sulphur

Krupp Special (Spezial-Gewehr-Lauf-Stahl) patented 1896:
0.61% Carbon
0.04% Phosphorous
0.65% Manganese
0.04% Sulphur

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Drew Hause

Thank you Dave.


Sample of Parker barrels analyzed by Optical Emission Spectroscopy (OES) and published in the Summer 2014 Parker Pages by Dave Suponski

Titanic Steel (likely pre-WWI)
Carbon .32%
Manganese .70%
Phosphorus .033%
Sulphur .077%
Nickel .078%
Chromium .031%
Molybdenum .003%

Trojan Steel (likely pre-WWI)
Carbon .35%
Manganese .84%
Phosphorus .03%
Sulphur .025%
Nickel .04%
Chromium .02%
Molybdenum .004%

Vulcan Steel
Carbon .27%
Manganese .68%
Phosphorus .062%
Sulphur .052%
Nickel .01%
Chromium .008%
Molybdenum .002%

Parker Steel (1926)
Carbon .09%
Manganese .83%
Phosphorus .094%
Sulphur .074%
Nickel .007%
Chromium .014%
Molybdenum .003%

So while there are the same components to all the Parker fluid steel barrels, they differ in amounts, they likely differ in heat treat values, and I have seen differences in grain structure which results in finishing differences. These steels were sourced from different suppliers.

We have posters who contend that all Parker fluid steels were the same and differ in name only, as a marketing ploy. I'm missing the reasoning.

[Drew Hause]

Certainly the higher concentration of Nickel and Chromium in the Titanic Steel are significant, and add to the manufacturing cost.

The very low carbon in the Parker Steel sample suggests it may be Bessemer process "Decarbonized Steel" or Parker "Plain Steel". A tensile strength test therof would be quite interesting.