Low Pressure 16 Gauge
 

Gentlemen ,I have a hunting buddy who recently purchased a PH 16 Gauge Twist Steel Barreled gun and is looking for low pressure shells ,he contacted RST at my recommendation and the lady explained they haven't made 16 low pressure shells for at least three years ! I have a lot of shells and haven't bought shells for at least ten years so my question is ,where are you Damascus shooters buying your shells and what brand are they ?

I shoot either reloads or Fiocchi factory.Those are also 2 3/4” guns. The only 16 I have that has 2 1/2” chambers gets a steady diet of reloads.

Have they made any ammo in three years? I’d readily order more. I’ve got 4 of their wooden crates (2 double flat and 2 single flat)full of 12, 16 and 20’s that I’m afraid to shoot as I can’t replace them as I use them up. I’ve (almost) given up looking there. And I pay more on shipping than any other supplier, $90. & change to ship 2 flats. I need 10 gauge so…. I still look.

Clay shooters supply in Dallas offers Hull and Game Bore in 2 1/2 (65mm) shells for 12, 16 and 20 gauges, though pressures aren’t listed. I’ve ordered and received 12, and 20’s still waiting on 16. Online inventory was wrong. Ordered a flat but they apparently only have 3 boxes that are now in transit. (Usually very quick fulfillment and very reasonable shipping).

Target Sports (I think they’re in CT?) also carries Game Bore in 2 1/2” lengths though I’ve not seen 16 gauge). $99.00 membership gives you even lower pricing. Cheap shipping fast delivery (typically).

Ammo Fix in Florida carries Armusa. I was notified by email that in addition to 2 1/2” 12’s and 20’s they now have a 16 in their Vintage line as well. I’ve ordered 2 flats of each. Normally….. very quick fulfillment and $10.00 shipping, free on orders over $500. Was told in my email that product is in transit from Spain and expected this month. The Vintage line was developed with vintage British guns in mind, but I’ve not seen pressures noted, just velocity. Give Andres Montoya a call for details (407) 342-0731. I use and like their 12 gauge 2 3/4 trap ammo and will load up when on sale.

My only Damascus gun is my 10 gauge hammer….. and only RST feeds it. But I’m actively looking for alternatives.

Good luck

There may have been some confusion with RST
The 'LITE' and 'ULTRA' loads are out of stock
Falcon 7/8 oz is in stock. I checked the No. 7 but not the other sizes shot
https://www.rstshells.com/store/m/16-Gauge.aspx

16g 2 1/2" Gamebore Regal is 8100 psi
https://gamebore.com/cartridge/game/16g-regal-game

Good Evening Drew , would the Falcon's be alright to shoot in it as far as the pressure is concerned ? Who ever he spoke with explained she does have the Falcons !

Russ, I reload all my 16 ga low pressure shells in 2.5" chedites hulls, 3/4 &7/8 oz. I have the old 16 Forum low pressure load files on my computer if that helps. Recently Craig Larter posted some good 16 ga low pressure loads here.
I have a PH 16 with twist barrels also.

Russ,

All of RST products are suitable for your friends gun. You could call them and ask to be sure.

Here is what I reload. Tested
16 gauge
Win 209 primer
1/2” Cheddite shell
1 ounce lead
SG16 wad
17.7 grains of Longshot powder
Used Bushing 18 mec
1086 fps
5100 psi

These are fold crimped when tested

But I have recently been into roll crimping which lowers the pressure more

I have some others if you want to reach out

Russ: please ask your friend to review this
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads...-shoot.366087/

The last pressure report listed for the 7/8 oz Falcon load was 6000 psi; the 1 oz. was 6600 psi.

Here's one you might enjoy,

https://i.imgur.com/EupDmWe.png

Funny that I bought 2 flats of rst last year at Ernie’s in 16 so yes they make them. I bought more very early this year. That info is wrong. The Armusa are great. I have a pallet of regular shells coming from Montoya. Be forewarned pallets in transit may never actually get here. He shoots at Binghamton a lot and can get bunker 24g loads and 1oz but it can takes months and months and have had no success with low pressure from Armusa.

Happy to see RST has some inventory. I added two flats to my cart, but balked when shipping came to $81.00. I will buy them though as I checked my Armusa order, and delivery has changed from May to June. Fingers crossed that they do arrive, as they’ve been payed for.

We know as owners of older guns and shorter chambers, that the demand for shells that feed them is comparatively small to the rest of the makers production.

I buy these guns to shoot them. I’ve plenty of hunting rounds for my needs, but I go to three different ranges to shoot trap, 5 stand and sporting clays 3-4 times a week. Rotating through my 11 vintage Parker’s (20 through 10 gauges) 3 Ithaca SBT’s, and Sterlingworth to spare them the wear and tear. Hoping to extend my enjoyment of each.

RST’s focus is exactly our market, but I want to support all who still continue to support our needs. Spread the love, if you will. It would be upsetting to see any maker abandon our demographic.

Carry on

Andrew: I have been informed by suppliers of several products that internet listings may be "aspirational" :rolleyes:

Even though I've been a 16ga guy for around 65 years I don't shoot my 16's at targets. I'd like to, but the financial side of things doesn't fit with my current income level. I've got enough 16ga hunting loads to last me, and I shoot 12's at targets. I can afford that (barely :)).

You will like the Falcons. They would not blow up a gun made of cardboard and the recoil is non existent. Get them while RST has them in stock.

My thoughts align with Phil's. I will take a 16 out once or twice a year to hunt with but not to shoot targets with. And I shoot a lot of targets. A lot. I reload for 12, 20 and 28 to shoot targets with but the 16 to me is problematic in finding decent hulls and wads. If one is a serious 16 fanantic then there is no other option for low pressure loads, available when you want them, than reloading.

RST was selling 16ga shells at Hausmann's and Rock Mountain last year for $150 per flat. Although I'm a 16ga reloaders if they have the same or slightly higher price i will buy a few flats.

Hand loads
 

This is my load I have used for a few years now. This is a conversation example only. Nonpublished load, I never had it tested, use all or part of this load at your own risk. In use, it's soft on the shoulder coupled with my light 16-s I target shoot with. My scores at sporting clays are consistent and as good or better than factory game loads. Hulls can be used 3 times or more before the crimp peddles split. Down range wads may be hard to acquire? They may be out of business. SXS OHIO

I really like my 16 for shooting targets but have been frustrated the most in reloading them.
What works for me is a 2 1/2 RST hull, 7/8 shot, clay buster wad, chedite primer and green dot powder. This was a non tested load that just “feels right.” It was shared by a member here. Loading 1 oz in a 2 3/4 hull felt too heavy and why 7/8 didn’t work right in the 2 3/4 hull - I don’t know.

If 7/8 didn’t work because the crimp went in too far and/or left a hole in the center, you can add a 1/8” nitro card under your wad. That should move your wad column high enough for a good crimp. If you try that just load maybe 6-8 of them to be sure they all crimp properly, then break a few clays with them. You’ll know whether you like them or not.

One other thing that may affect your crimp. If you are using RST hulls, their crimps seem to have “more plastic in them” than other brands. Not saying RST are bad, it’s just an observation having reloaded A LOT OF THEM. You may have to adjust your wad column(such as adding a 1/8” NC) and/or start and finish crimps.

I’ve three 16’s , all acquired this year. A dolls head Trojan, a refinished VHE, and a well used Sterlingworth. I’m not shooting any of them well, but intend to hunt them in the fall.

So for now…. I’m dancing with each until I find the one I want to marry (while having an occasional tryst with the others).

Probably shoot a lot better if I just stuck with one. But what fun is that?

I’m the outlier. I like to shoot clays with my 16’s. Since I have about a metric ton of longshot and a lot of rst hulls I ahoot one oz loads a lot. And a mix of factory or 2 3/4” cheddite handloads for my sweet 16 and model 31. And a 16 VHE is my number one gun. If I fall into a pile of money then it would be 28’s more but for now 16 does all I need it to. When I ahoot my zoli 28 I feel badly for my 7-8 Parker 16’s then invariably grab one next.

I got a nice 16 ga. load Craig Larter made available to all after testing a while back. I have shot it a lot in my "0" frame Damascus 16 as well as several other 16s I have. Great for clays, quail and dove. I have noticed it burns a bit "dirty" at low temps but I think that's common with low pressure loads and cold weather.
2 1/2" Cheditte hull
209 Cheditte primer
Sporting 16 wad
7/8 oz. 7 1/2 shot
17.4 gr. Longshot
6 pt crimp

Neglected to add Craig's test results.
1145 FPS
5933 psi

I do very similar Keith with 18g longshot and 1oz #8 with the TUWG1816 wad at 1200fps and about 7200 psi as tested. It’s my favorite 16 vintage load because I can get all the stuff

Andy, that's why I started fooling with Longshot....I could get it. I've since discovered it's great for short 10s and 20s. A very versatile powder, cheap and has remained available. I'm still using International in 12 ga. as I have a pretty good stash. If I run low I'll be working up some loads for Longshot I'm sure. May not live long enough to see International or Universal available again!

I bought some of the Armusa 16's and 12's. The box states "not for use in Damascus and Twist barrels". Is this just a legal move by them, or is the pressure too high with these shells? There is no pressure listed. I obtained some old RST shells and there is no pressure listing on their box. I have never reloaded, and would really prefer not to go into all that for the tools to do the job correctly, but I would like to have some safe pressure shells to shoot.

The Armusa website states the 16 gauge “Vintage” 2 1/2” shells generate 6600 psi.

https://ammofix.com/product/armusa-1...free-shipping/

Just an FYI, On RST home page

Our shells are safe to shoot in Vintage Guns. Even with Damascus and Twist Steel barrels!

Of course after a reputable SxS gunsmith has given the OK.

(With the exception of the Pigeon loads, A-5, Heavy Hunting)

Given what the box says, I wonder why they contradict themselves with the information on the website? Is the 6600 PSI cosidered safe in the Damascus and Twist barrels for long term shooting? Add in the fact that most of these older doubles are tightly choked. Realizing the barrels condition being sound (?) of course.

And thanks to Mr. Garrett and Mr. White for their information.

Bit the bullet and bought a flat each of Falcon 20’s and 16’s. I find those harder to source than the 12’s. But I can’t get over the $91.00 shipping costs. Certainly when compared to the other ammo vendors. First world problems,