Let's define a "shooter"...

[C grade]

That is a great question and I think each of us have a unique "line" between shooter and collectible. For me it is a shooter if shooting it regularly will not diminish the value of the gun. I have a few Parkers that I shoot regularly, other high condition guns I shoot rarely because regular shooting will diminish their value and then a rare few that are rare and in high condition and shooting them could cause significant loss of value and also the "loss" of one of a diminishing number of such Parkers. I treasure my shooter as much ,if not more ,than my other Parker but love them all.
David

[Bill Murphy]

Dave Dwyer has posted the "collector's definition" of a shooter. It's all about condition and future value, not about damage or barrels blowing up. If I can shoot a gun or hunt a collector gun without changing the condition or value, it is a shooter, regardless of its monetary value. Some other posters came close, but Dave hit it on the head.

[TARNATION !!!]

Originally Posted by Tim Sheldon

To me a "shooter" is a gun that isn't too perfect or unsafe or rare to shoot.

An example of too rare, IMO, is say a gun that has a name hammered into the damascus pattern. Could you shoot it, yes. But if you blew the barrel, the loss would be to great to the collecting community.

To shoot a 120 year old mint gun is just selfish.

To shoot an unsafe gun is just foolish.

Tim

Tim, you raise some interesting philosophical questions here. I think we all agree that shooting an unsafe gun is foolish.

At what point in a 120 year mint gun's history does it become selfish to shoot it?

Can we agree that it is not the original purchaser's starting point, otherwise, there would be few examples of shooters and lots of NIBs. Shooters would then become the prized find

Let's assume an original purchaser died before using it and the widow(er) just stored it until s/he passed and it was inherited 40 years out from factory - still unfired. Is the heir selfish if it were pressed into service at that point? Hunting with Dad's gun that had all but been forgotten, would any of us consider that selfish and not use that gun?

Once it has been used from there on it matters not that it continues to get used.

Now let's assume that the first heir was not the least bit interested in guns and it passed to a grandson who is an enthusiastic hunter/shooter. He is wowed at the beautiful gun he just inherited, lets say 75 years out from the factory. Is he selfish to shoot it?? If he knows nothing about collecting, is he selfish? If he does know all about collecting but choses to use his Grand Dad's gun, is he selfish??

Where is that cut off point between the gun being a tool versus a need to preserve?

Let's assume the gun has remained in the family from the beginning and unfired until it recently became inherited. Is the shooting enthusiast of today selfish if s/he finally uses Great Grand daddy's gun?

Now, lets assume it went to auction rather than stayed in the family but did so at the same points as the example above. When does it become selfish to use the gun for it's intended purpose, as per Mr. Parker ("Much care is bestowed to make it what the Sportsman needs-a good gun"-Charles Parker )

Continuing in a philosophical vein. Is collecting mint/minty guns selfish? From the caretaker perspective are all collectors equipped to provide controlled conditions to preserve wood/metal without deterioration? If not, would the proper thing be to donate any mint gun acquired to somewhere like the Smithsonian or the NRA museums for controlled condition preservation. Even if a collector has the controlled environment, is it selfish to retain them for a select few to ever see or should they be donated for the masses to be able to enjoy as well??

I have had 3 NIBs in life. Winchester 1200 that has seen a lot of shooting. Savage O/U .22/.410 Has not seen a full box of .410 and maybe a box of .22. One Winchester '94 Commemorative which remains unfired.

The unfired NIB is closing in on 40 years out from factory. Is it selfish to decide one day to drop a whitetail with it?

Where is that line that some feel should not be crossed? Is it now or did it arrive decades ago?

These are philosophical questions not directed to anyone specifically.

I grew up with guns being tools, nothing more, even if they were pretty. I don't have answers to my own questions. They can be considered rhetorical or to open/continue debate.

Cheers,
Jack

[Brush Buster]

First ,like Dave ,I like to shoot all of my guns ,at the moment ,I have one ,I have owned a while and still haven't shot yet ! With that said ,if I am selling a gun ,and it is a good solid functional gun ,but maybe has had the wood refinished ,or the colors redone ,or perhaps new bluing ,or maybe had a broken stock ,and I replaced it along the way and I know the stock is not serial #'ed to the gun I would advertise this particular gun as a "Good Solid Shooter " ,I had a VHE 12 Ga. that Ivory Beads sold for me a while back with good honest 95 percent plus original condition ,although I am sure this gun would have shot quite well ,I never found the need to pull the trigger or carry it a day in the field ,consequently ,I sold it ,I would not refer to this type of gun as a " Shooter " but a collectible piece ! Just thought I would add my two cents for what its worth ,but it is something how the same question ,can receive so many different opinions !

[Tim Sheldon]

[QUOTE=Russ Jackson;13997] ,but maybe has had the wood refinished ,or the colors redone ,or perhaps new bluing ,or maybe had a broken stock ,and I replaced it along the way and I know the stock is not serial #'ed to the gun I would advertise this particular gun as a "Good Solid Shooter " QUOTE]

So in the ads, when you see "good solid shooter" it really doesn't mean it shoots well?

T

[Autumn Daze]

Come on Tim,You know the drill.....

[Tim Sheldon]

Originally Posted by Dave Suponski

Come on Tim,You know the drill.....

So what it really means is buyer beware, if you can't tell whats been done to the gun, better keep doing some exploratory surgery because you are probably going to find the special area that has been worked on but it has only been advertised as a "good solid shooter"

This practice is not good or bad, maybe it is in a various shade of gray. But this is how it happens in lots of dealings.

When it's a fairly high quality gun and it is represented as a good solid shooter, here is where the red flag pop up like there is no tomorrow.

Tim

[Brush Buster]

[QUOTE=Tim Sheldon;14001]

Originally Posted by Russ Jackson

,but maybe has had the wood refinished ,or the colors redone ,or perhaps new bluing ,or maybe had a broken stock ,and I replaced it along the way and I know the stock is not serial #'ed to the gun I would advertise this particular gun as a "Good Solid Shooter " QUOTE]

So in the ads, when you see "good solid shooter" it really doesn't mean it shoots well?

T

I guess that all depends on who's pulling the trigger !

[tom tutwiler]

Ok. To me a shooter is a functionally sound gun who doesn't have the overall condition or rarity to warrant being stuck in a safe somewhere. Bo Whoop would in some people's mind be a shooter, restocked (twice) and used constantly throughout it's life by its owner (until it vanished of course). However, the provenance of that gun trumps all. Most Fox guys would certainly shoot in HE in that condition. I venture to say there are some well used high end Parkers that fall into the same category. For me in particular a shooter is a gun with mechanical fixes and/or sprucing up that rendered it no longer collectible to most, but certainly worthy of providing a enjoyable outing in the field, whether that field means the game of shoot clay birds, or real birds. Anyway, one person's opinion.

[Autumn Daze]

Tim,Exactly...Thanks for spelling it out...