Another Henry F. Tenney Parker

[Bill Zachow]

Dean, I think we are making a mountain out of a molehill. Just because the serials are not in the PGI & S book does not mean that they do not exist. The PGI & S book was created from Charlie Price's data base which was created from the copied book pages by hired computer input people. Charlie can do a better job than I explaining the process. The reading, typing, entering process was fraught with error--but not because the original books were wrong. Check page 260 of the referenced book. Three 8 gauges are listed in the 4th column, starting with serial 74620. There are actually four 8 in this set, starting with 74619. How do I know? I have 74622 and a copy of the original order from E. T. Allen in California. Parker Bros. pretty much did everything right, including keeping factory records.

[Mark Conrad]

The Parker Story database and the PGCA database are not the same. Both include all the stock book serials but TPS database does not include serials for G grade and lower. So, a grade two or lower where the stock book is missing will not be in the Serialization book even though we have records for it in an order book. If you have a grade 2 or lower always check the database on this website not the Serialization book. Also note that it is possible for our database to show we have records but the only record is for a repair. We can not do a letter on a repair only as there will be no info on the what the gun actually is. Mark

[Bill Murphy]

What Dean does not understand about page 331 is that the stock books for the entire page are missing. We don't have stock book information for any gun from serial number 103084 to 111443, but we have plenty of order book information for letters. The reason that there is information on the high grade, 8 and 28 gauge guns on page 331 is that the authors searched the order books for high grade guns, 28 gauge and 8 gauge guns for the Appendices. Yes, there are low grade guns recorded in those order books, but the authors did not record them. The PGCA records include all those low grade guns in their available data. There are thousands of guns not listed in the Serialization Book that are available for PGCA letters as Mark explains. As Mr. Zachow tried to explain, Parker Brothers recorded all guns, all grades. What PGCA members must remember is that the SB only includes guns from available stock books and a few hundred high grades and 8 and 28 gauge guns. There are thousands of guns available for research by the PGCA researcher that do not appear in the sainted Serialization Book. Another thing to remember is that the order books ended in 1919 and any later gun will not have purchaser information except in rare instances. By the way, just about everything Mr. McCormack said was right and virtually everything Mr. Fishtail said was wrong. No one who knows anything about the Parker records has ever said that low grade guns were not posted in the records. Mr. Fishtail is mistaken about what he thinks he has read on the forum.

[Bill Murphy]

One comment made earlier was that Dean understood that the researchers at Ilion in 1998 did not copy the records of the low grade guns. This is absolutely wrong. The Research Committee members copied every page of every Parker order book in the Remington Archives. They copied every Parker IBM card in the Remington Archives. Commander Gunther copied every page of every stock book in the Remington Archives and presented the copies to PGCA. Every page of every order book, stock book, and every IBM card is in the PGCA research files, thanks to that research committee. Three members of the 1998 PGCA Research Committee have posted correct information on this thread. Those posters are Mr. McCormack, Mr. Conrad, and Mr. Murphy. If you want confirmation that all guns, high grade and low, were posted in the Parker records and copied by PGCA, ask one of those three people. By the way, a great article explaining the work of the PGCA Research Committee was written by Ron Kirby and published in the Parker Pages. I hope someone can give us a reference to that article, or maybe Dean can reprint it in a future Parker Pages.

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

One comment made earlier was that Dean understood that the researchers at Ilion in 1998 did not copy the records of the low grade guns. This is absolutely wrong.

I am the first to admit that either I was misinformed or I misunderstoot the information I had on that subject - again, I apologize for perpetuating the misinformation. D.R.

The Research Committee members copied every page of every Parker order book in the Remington Archives. They copied every Parker IBM card in the Remington Archives. Commander Gunther copied every page of every stock book in the Remington Archives and presented the copies to PGCA. Every page of every order book, stock book, and every IBM card is in the PGCA research files, thanks to that research committee. Three members of the 1998 PGCA Research Committee have posted correct information on this thread. Those posters are Mr. McCormack, Mr. Conrad, and Mr. Murphy. If you want confirmation that all guns, high grade and low, were posted in the Parker records and copied by PGCA, ask one of those three people. By the way, a great article explaining the work of the PGCA Research Committee was written by Ron Kirby and published in the Parker Pages. I hope someone can give us a reference to that article, or maybe Dean can reprint it in a future Parker Pages.

I will be more than happy to do so. Where 2013 marks the twentieth anniversary of the founding of the PGCA I am quite sure a reprint of Ron Kirby's informative article will be appreciated. Thanks Bill for the suggestion. D.R.

[Bindlestiff]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

By the way, a great article explaining the work of the PGCA Research Committee was written by Ron Kirby and published in the Parker Pages. I hope someone can give us a reference to that article, or maybe Dean can reprint it in a future Parker Pages.

I looked for you Bill and didn't find anything by Ron on the topic. However, I did find "The Parker Records - Ilion - June 1998" by Frank B. Sweeney in Volume 5, issue 5, of Parker Pages. I hope this is the one you were thinking of?