Biggest frame size for a 20 ga?

[Bruce Day]

I have an open, honest question.

What would be the reason for wanting/shooting a 2 frame 20ga , or a 3 frame 16ga? I understand about wanting a heavy gun for heavy loads and to reduce recoil, but why not just buy a 12 and load down? These are not the type of guns a person would carry for upland game hunting are they?

If a person is collecting today, I understand the desire to have something different, but when these guns were ordered new, what was the thinking?

[John Truitt]

Mr. Day,

Just like you stated these were not upland game guns. Instead they were made for ducks, geese, maybe a trap gun, etc. Certainly for pass shooting.
I have heard it said many times, and after handleing several of these larger frame guns of varying gauges, frame size does not always equate to overall gun weight.
IMHO: the larger frames allow the breach end of the gun to be of considerable thickness but allow a large amount of barrel taper. (look at a #3 frame 32 or 34" twelve some will have really swamped/ tapered barrels) Thus putting more weight between your hands instead of out at the muzzle ends.
There are certainly exceptions to everything. I for one really like these larger frame 12s and twenties.
I think I have read that there was a large push or interest in long heavy sub gauge guns in California and the west coast states in the twenties or something like that.

[Researcher]

Well, here it is again. This gun was a 2-frame GH-Grade built in 1889, with very straight and heavy 32-inch Damascus barrels with a requested weight of 9 1/2 pounds. As an aside, my Grandfather's 1890 PH-Grade 12-gauge is on a 3-frame but its cylinder bore 30-inch barrels swamp very fast, and it weighs 8 pounds 8 ounces. At some point in its life my GH-Grade lost two inches from its 12-gauge barrels. While Mark could find nothing in the records for it, my belief is it was back to Meriden sometime after 1918 but before about 1927, and got a set of 32-inch, 3-inch chambered, Vulcan Steel 20-gauge barrels. Both sets of barrels have the post-1910 bolt plate, and of course the receiver has the new bolt. The 20-gauge Vulcan barrels have the CT USA address, but do not have the Parker Bros. Overload Proof stamps. The 20-gauge 2-frame barrels swamp in very fast. The gun currantly weighs 9 pounds 0.5 ounces with the 12-gauge barrels and forearm in place and 8 pounds 4.5 ounces with the 20-gauge barrels and forearm in place. Makes Parker Bros. statements on the extra barrel listing shown on page 35 of the currant issue of Parker Pages untrue?!?

[Researcher]

The big 20-gauge guns had a flash of popularity shortly before WW-I. The famous Widgeon Duck Club guns being, of course, the great Parker Bros. example. The J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. also introduced their No. 200 pump gun for 20-gauge shells up to 3-inch about 1913. Several of the early graded Ansley H. Fox 20-gauges were chambered for 3-inch cases. In those days the max load available from the manufacturers in the "standard" 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell was 2 1/4 drams of bulk or 2 1/2 drams equiv. of dense smokeless powder and 7/8 ounce of shot. However, in the longer shells they would load 2 1/2 drams or drams equiv. and 7/8 ounce of shot.

Around 1911, Edwin Hedderly the famous California sportsman and editor of Western Field magazine did a lengthy series on his experiments with high velocity smallbore loads. He got several long barrel smallbore guns from Parker Bros. I have records for a 32-inch DHE 20-gauge, a 32-inch DHE 28-gauge, a 32-inch A-1 Special 20-gauge and a 32-inch A-1 Special 16-gauge. Fellow member Kevin McCormack had been in the process for some time of transcribing these articles in the hope of republishing them. Maybe someday?

Maybe the interest in getting ones long barrel smallbore on a big frame came from reports of Hedderly blowing up the DHE 20-gauge!!!!

[Dean Romig]

Good stuff Dave. I, too, hope Kevin is puts an article together on this information.

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

Maybe the interest in getting ones long barrel smallbore on a big frame came from reports of Hedderly blowing up the DHE 20-gauge!!!!

Interesting bit of information there... can you expand on it?.... how he blew the gun up and any known particulars?

Dean

[Merv Boyd]

Hi Bruce,
I think I have another question that goes hand in hand with your question. What was the reason for, what I would call, the extreme DAH's of some of the shotgun stocks made around the the late 1800's/ early 1900"s? Was the drop driven by a shooting style? It seems that when the DAH is 3 1/2" to 4" the selling price of the shotgun goes down.

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Mervyn Boyd

Hi Bruce,
I think I have another question that goes hand in hand with your question. What was the reason for, what I would call, the extreme DAH's of some of the shotgun stocks made around the the late 1800's/ early 1900"s? Was the drop driven by a shooting style? It seems that when the DAH is 3 1/2" to 4" the selling price of the shotgun goes down.

Mervyn, of course your question is off track to the original post, but I've heard some explanations that I will pass on. First, I've seen Parkers from that era with 2" DAH. I've heard that the ones with a lot of drop were more suited for waterfowling where a person is wearing heavy clothes and the birds are dropping in. Other than that, I don't know and perhaps others will comment. I do know that I have seen a lot of Parkers from that era with 2 1/2 to 2 3/4" DAH. Yes a lot of people ( me included) find shooting difficult with the high drop guns.