TSS Shot

[Steve Hodges]

Question, is shooting TSS Shot safe out of my Steel Shot Special? Thanks for your opinion, Steve

[Wild Skies]

Here's what AI has to say regarding shooting TSS shot out of a Parker Reproduction Steel Shot Special:

It is generally not recommended to shoot TSS (Tungsten Super Shot) in a Parker Reproduction Steel Shot Special without careful consideration and potentially consulting a gunsmith. Here's a breakdown of why:
Understanding Your Shotgun:
* Parker Reproduction Steel Shot Special: This shotgun was specifically designed and built to safely handle steel shot. This means it likely has features like:
* Chrome-lined barrels: To resist the abrasion of steel shot.
* Stronger steel in the barrel construction: To handle the potentially higher pressures associated with some steel loads (though modern steel loads are generally lower pressure than older lead loads).
* Appropriate choke constrictions: Typically Improved Cylinder (IC) and Modified (M) as tighter chokes can cause problems with steel shot.
Understanding TSS Shot:
* High Density: TSS is significantly denser than lead or steel. This allows for the use of smaller shot sizes with equivalent or even superior energy and penetration.
* Hardness: TSS is also very hard and does not deform like lead.
Why TSS in a Steel Shot Special Might Be Problematic:
* Choke Concerns: While your shotgun is designed for steel, TSS behaves differently due to its density and hardness. It patterns very tightly, and it's been noted that TSS may not respond to chokes in the same way lead or even steel does. Using chokes tighter than recommended for steel (which your gun likely has - IC/M) could potentially lead to:
* Overly tight patterns: This might not be ideal for your intended use.
* Potential for barrel damage: Although less likely than with steel in a non-steel-rated gun, the non-deforming nature of TSS and the pressures generated could, in extreme cases or with very tight chokes, cause issues over time.
* Pressure: While TSS itself isn't inherently high-pressure, it's crucial to use commercially manufactured TSS loads from reputable manufacturers. Reloading TSS without precise data and understanding could lead to dangerous pressure levels. Your Parker Reproduction, while built for steel, is still a classic design, and exceeding safe pressure limits should always be avoided.
* Barrel Wear (Less Likely): The chrome-lined barrels should resist wear from the shot itself. However, the long-term effects of the harder TSS on the barrel material compared to steel are not as well-documented for these older reproductions.
Recommendations:
* Consult a Reputable Gunsmith: This is the most important step. A gunsmith experienced with classic doubles and modern ammunition will be able to assess your specific Parker Reproduction and provide the safest advice. They can check the chokes and the overall condition of the barrels.
* Check Manufacturer Recommendations: If you know the specific manufacturer and date of your Parker Reproduction Steel Shot Special, try to find any documentation or recommendations regarding alternative shot types.
* Start with Light Loads and Open Chokes (If You Proceed): If a gunsmith deems it potentially safe, start with commercially manufactured TSS loads with lower velocities and stick to the most open choke your shotgun has (likely Improved Cylinder). Pattern the gun carefully to see how the TSS performs.
* Avoid Tight Chokes: Never use Full or Extra Full chokes with TSS in your Parker Reproduction.
In conclusion, while your Parker Reproduction Steel Shot Special is designed for steel, the unique properties of TSS warrant caution. It is highly recommended that you consult a knowledgeable gunsmith before using TSS shot in your shotgun to ensure safety and optimal performance.

[Steve Hodges]

Thanks Greg, answers my question. I would not risk it.

[Mike of the Mountain]

In a steel shot rated repro, I’d shoot it. 1) Open chokes. 2) Hunting turkey. TSS patterns very tightly so it’s not good for clays or wing shooting. Maybe on ducks or geese coming in to decoys, but pass shooting would be very difficult. No margin for error.

Unless you have reloading data from a TSS vendor, don’t reload it, buy factory shells. Factory TSS are very expensive. Just sayin’.

I buy my TSS from Hal Abbott. If you buy shot from him he will give you any recipe you need but you’ll be treating those recipes as a NDA.

[GH-16]

Interesting that AI is basically parroting what we've talked about here and on other gun forms over the years.

The one thing it didn't mention is that it's commonly thought that all Parker repro barrels are chrome lined and the only thing that sets a steel shot special apart from other 12ga repro's is they were a special-order run made for a particular dealer with more open chokes and stampings indicting that they are steel shot specials.

As far a shooting TSS shot through a SSS or any repro for that matter--I personally wouldn't do it and take the risk. I have other guns more suited for using TSS if I felt the need to use it.

[Wild Skies]

Paul, I agree with almost everything you wrote in the above post. It is true that all Repros have chrome-lined barrels. However, and what has been reported here in this sub-forum by an authoritative source, using empirical data, is that the SSSs have chrome-lining through the choke area, whereas the regular run of Repros do not.

I am open to correction, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[GH-16]

Originally Posted by Greg Baehman

Paul, I agree with almost everything you wrote in the above post. It is true that all Repros have chrome-lined barrels. However, and what has been reported here in this sub-forum by an authoritative source, using empirical data, is that the SSSs have chrome-lining through the choke area, whereas the regular run of Repros do not.

I am open to correction, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've been around the industrial chroming game some with cylinder lining in diesel engines, my mechanical instincts tell me that it doesn't make sense that you can exclude the choke area while chroming the other 90% of the bore. The only way I see this possible is for the chokes to be cut after the chroming process was done. Why would they cut the chokes before the chroming process on the SSS and not on the rest of the Repro barrels as they went down the production line? Just my curious mind telling me something isn't passing the sniff test here.

I'm still of the thought that all Parker repro's were ran through the same production processes at the factory and the SSS were for the most part just a marketing tool for the dealer that special ordered them for their shop.

An item I try to keep in mind is that when the SSS were made steel shot was just immerging on the scene for waterfowl hunting and there was very little knowledge about it at the time and a dealer having a special run of guns made & marketed as steel shot specials was a great sales hook. This worked so well that we still revere them to this day. Now, here we are having a discussion about a new non-tox shot hitting the market and the circle starts again--Is it safe to shoot it in my gun.

If repro's were still in production, we could have a special run of TSS specials made. Ten bucks says a bunch of them would be sold

[Wild Skies]

Originally Posted by Paul Ehlers

I've been around the industrial chroming game some with cylinder lining in diesel engines, my mechanical instincts tell me that it doesn't make sense that you can exclude the choke area while chroming the other 90% of the bore. The only way I see this possible is for the chokes to be cut after the chroming process was done. Why would they cut the chokes before the chroming process on the SSS and not on the rest of the Repro barrels as they went down the production line? Just my curious mind telling me something isn't passing the sniff test here.

I'm still of the thought that all Parker repro's were ran through the same production processes at the factory and the SSS were for the most part just a marketing tool for the dealer that special ordered them for their shop.

An item I try to keep in mind is that when the SSS were made steel shot was just immerging on the scene for waterfowl hunting and there was very little knowledge about it at the time and a dealer having a special run of guns made & marketed as steel shot specials was a great sales hook. This worked so well that we still revere them to this day. Now, here we are having a discussion about a new non-tox shot hitting the market and the circle starts again--Is it safe to shoot it in my gun.

If repro's were still in production, we could have a special run of TSS specials made. Ten bucks says a bunch of them would be sold

Page 4 of the below linked thread brought forth information by a couple of individuals more knowledgable regarding industrial chrome lining and more intimately involved with the development of the SSS than myself.
https://parkerguns.org/forums/showth...ghlight=chrome

[GH-16]

Originally Posted by Greg Baehman

Page 4 of the below linked thread brought forth information by a couple of individuals more knowledgable regarding industrial chrome lining and more intimately involved with the development of the SSS than myself.
https://parkerguns.org/forums/showth...ghlight=chrome

I fully respect what our fellow member Mr. Allen has to say about the production of the SSS. I just wish we had some actual technical production data to give some definitive proof of differences between standard repro's and the SSS's.

My problem is I have a skeptical mind and am constantly questioning many of the things we see on the internet & elsewhere anymore. My phrase for this is it's the internet form of urban Myth & Ledgen. There's a ton of it on all the gun forms on a wide range of subjects & some of the information on the Parker Repro's falls into this bucket.

In the big picture of things, it's great that we have the special run of Steel Shot Specials and I'm really glad we have them.

[Wild Skies]

Originally Posted by Paul Ehlers

I fully respect what our fellow member Mr. Allen has to say about the production of the SSS. I just wish we had some actual technical production data to give some definitive proof of differences between standard repro's and the SSS's.

My problem is I have a skeptical mind and am constantly questioning many of the things we see on the internet & elsewhere anymore. My phrase for this is it's the internet form of urban Myth & Ledgen. There's a ton of it on all the gun forms on a wide range of subjects & some of the information on the Parker Repro's falls into this bucket.

In the big picture of things, it's great that we have the special run of Steel Shot Specials and I'm really glad we have them.

Well, how about bringing some of that Parker Repro Urban Myth & Legend information you talk about to the Parker Reproduction "Production Chart" thread? We all might further our knowledge . . .