Defining a Parker Long Range shotgun

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

This subject was partially approached by our membership in a thread of 2-24-2017 and some excellent points were made.
Page 23 of the 1929 Flying Geese catalog refers to the ""Parker Long Range Duck Gun".

The question that remains is what did Parker Bros actually do to the Long Range guns to allow them to handle the new Super-X 3in magnum shells?
These were developed by John Olin at Winchester-Western and first used by Charles Askins and Nash Buckingham with a couple of AH Fox HE 3 in Super Fox guns bored by Bert Becker about 1923-25.
The Super Fox guns were over-bored on heavy almost 10-ga- 12 gauge frames. The LC Smith Long Range Wildfowl models had reinforced lug "splinters".Most of the Fox-Smiths were full choked with barrels 30-32 inches in length.

Parker stated in 1929 " The purchaser of a Parker Long Range can rest assured
that he will receive a gun heavy enough and properly bored to shoot the heaviest loads for the killing of wildfowl at extreme ranges".

What did Parker Bros actually do to the barrels and actions of their Long Range shotguns? Technically, that is.

This Long Range shotgun issue has also been explored on the LC Smith site where some LC Smiths were 3 in chambered earlier in the 20s but not marked Long Range. Parker was undoubtedly influenced by Fox, Smith and Winchester to produce a Long Range Wildfowl gun to utilize the new progressive powder shells like the Super-X 3in 12 ga and to compete with the other U.S. shotgun manufacturers.
The 1930s Long Range Remington-Parkers were marked with 3 inch chamber stamping. just like the earlier Fox and LC Smith guns.
It also appears that Fox, Smith and Parker could mark chambers or not, with 2 3/4 in or 3in actual chambers. {I own a 3in Super Fox and a 3 in Smith Long Range Waterfowl , along with two Winchester Heavy Duck 3 in Model 12s }.

My 1930s Remington-Parker catalog on page 32 states under the paragraph heading : Parker Extra Long Range Duck Guns ;
"Ordinarily, Parker 12 gauge guns are chambered up to and including 2 3/4 inches. Those guns can be furnished with special long range choke
boring to give more effective results at extreme ranges. 12 gauge guns -with the exception of the 'Trojan' are also available with 3 inch chambers for use with maximum long range heavy loaded shells. So chambered, Parker guns are guaranteed to handle these shells properly."

So, special boring and chambering, and possibly 1 1/2 -3 frames, but no mention of a special magnum or heavy 12 gauge frame and possibly no
extra action reinforcing to handle repeated use with magnum level 3 inch shells. But Parker guarantees their guns to properly handle the magnum 3-inch pressures like in the Super-X loadings.

The question still remains: did either Parker Bros in 1924-29 or Remington -Parker later reinforce their guns in some other manner to
withstand repeated pounding from Magnum 3-inch 12 Ga shells?

[OH Osthaus]

I believe they ran advertising pointing out they would build what you wanted
I’d be surprised if the new super-x lead to any design change

A lot of the long range stuff was hype. The LC was not a bigger frame or heavier barrels. I’ve had two, one had the reinforced lug, one did not

BTW. A Super Fox is not a 10 frame it was a model specific design

[Stan Hillis]

I can't answer your question, Henderson, but would like to address this statement:

Originally Posted by LtCol Henderson Marriott

The Super Fox guns were over-bored on 10-ga frames.

The Super Fox guns were overbored, strategically, and the chamber dimensions were altered. Much was done to produce the ultimate patterns with the, then new, 3" WW magnum loads. But, they were not built on a 10 ga. frame. There was never a 10 ga. Fox frame, action, or otherwise.

[Kevin McCormack]

So far as I understood it, Parkers chambered for 3" shells at the factory are easily distinguished as such vs. essentially larger framed (e.g. 2 and 3-framed guns) 12 ga. guns whose chambers were lengthened after market to accept 3" shells; if you lay as straightedge along the FULL LENGTH of an original factory 3" chambered gun, there is no "swamp" or taper to the barrels, they are straight along the full length of the barrel. Guns bored after market show a decided taper or "dip" to the parallel line from breech to muzzle. And as the case with Fox HE grade guns, most were marked "3 " but not all of them.

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

Originally Posted by Stan Hillis

I can't answer your question, Henderson, but would like to address this statement:



The Super Fox guns were overbored, strategically, and the chamber dimensions were altered. Much was done to produce the ultimate patterns with the, then new, 3" WW magnum loads. But, they were not built on a 10 ga. frame. There was never a 10 ga. Fox frame, action, or otherwise.

While AH Fox never made a 10 ga frame, the appearance of a full sized Super
Fox with weight in many cases in excess of 9 pounds-led such writers of the 1920s as Askins and Buckingham to label the HE as approaching a 10 gauge frame size.

[edgarspencer]

Regardless who made the gun, it has been my experience that the longer the taper of the choke, the pattern remains tighter to a further distance.The Remington Wittemore choke began it's taper at nearly the midpoint of the barrel, with the tightest portion back from the muzzle about 1 1/2-2", and then straight. The belief was that the shot column was more stabilized over the longer constriction, and didn't begin to open until well downrange. I may be over simplifying what I have come to understand, for which I apologize.

[OH Osthaus]

I think many of us would rate the 32” 3 frame 12 ga Parker as being as close to the Super Fox as Parker made

[Reggie B]

Parker 1 frame 20/32" with 2 7/8 chambers, choked F/F is my "long range" gun. Oh and I also have an Elsie Crown 20/32", 3" chambers, F/F that probably would qualify as well. My two Fox 20/32" don't have the long chambers but they reach out there pretty far too!

[Cold Spring]

Originally Posted by henderson Marriott

While AH Fox never made a 10 ga frame, the appearance of a full sized Super
Fox with weight in many cases in excess of 9 pounds-led such writers of the 1920s as Askins and Buckingham to label the HE as approaching a 10 gauge frame size.

You often write glowingly and with tidbits of info on Super-Fox guns; perhaps you can provide the references by Askins and Buck to the frames and to that effect? What I've seen are period comments relating to the earliest barrel caliber, i.e., nominally .748/750", which approached 10-gauge bore sizing (actually about 11-gauge). Most Super-Fox frames were made from from 12-gauge frame forgings but machined with somewhat wider width across the breech balls and also at the back end of the frame where it abuts the head of the stock. I wrote "most" because some small number of Supers were "ordered light" and were made up on regular machined frames and running as light as ~ 8-1/4 pounds. For anyone interested and wanting to get into the lore of Supers, it would be well to refer to the index of Super-Fox articles in the DGJ that's on the paying members part of the Fox Collectors forum; plenty of good reading and tech info therein. frank

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Reggie Bishop

Parker 1 frame 20/32" with 2 7/8 chambers, choked F/F is my "long range" gun. Oh and I also have an Elsie Crown 20/32", 3" chambers, F/F that probably would qualify as well. My two Fox 20/32" don't have the long chambers but they reach out there pretty far too!

Yikes! That is quite a selection of big 20s.