Lifter Dilema
 

For a long time now I have been wanting to give a hammer gun a try. I am pretty flush on 12 gauges and was really only interested if it had high condition or was a higher grade. I saw this one for sale last week and figured for the price and the fact it was a grade 3 I'd give it a try. I am not a fan of cut barrels but I gave that a pass too. Book says 30" ad said 26"

Can't get the MWT measured until Monday. I ordered a letter and must say Mr. Bishop is rather quick sometimes. The letter is rather lengthy. This Parker has been returned to the factory 4 times. Twice as a trade for another gun. The fourth time was to "make shoot". The most interesting was the third time to make "10". Now I know it is not unusual to have guns re-barreled but it calls into question the originality of the barrel lengths. I measure the ends of the bore with my calipers and sure enough I get around .760. Additionally, a 12 gauge shell drops right past the extractor.

So, this has to be a 10 gauge. The ends of the barrels do not touch exactly but.....with an unstruck barrel weight of 4'4 I can't imagine they were very long to begin with?

My dilemma, I have no desire to own a 10 gauge but I might just have to change my mind if the walls are thick enough!

Correction, it was returned once as a trade on a C grade 10 gauge and once for a restock.

Could you post a picture of the letter?

The barrels are cut. And a close look at the pitting on the barrels should be done. And of course bore condition too. My initial reaction would be to let this one walk unless it is dirt cheap.

Hello Mr. Brege,

Parker shotgun, serial number 16513, was ordered by Crawford & Lovell of Savannah, GA for Wm. N. Nichols and ship to Jno. P. Morris Sons on April 2, 1880 and shipped on April 9, 1880. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 7, it was a Quality D, Lifter Action Hammer Gun, 12-gauge. It featured Damascus steel barrels with a length of 30 inches. The price was $125.00 less $80 for trade in of S/N 15062. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 17, the gun was returned by Wm. Nichols for a credit of $95.00 on the purchase of S/N 36884. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 18, the gun was purchased by Rev. J.E. Searle of NYC. The price was $75.00. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 23, the gun was returned on April 16, 1888 by R.M. Searles of NYC to restock. The price was $10.00. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 28, the gun was returned on January 31, 1891 to chamber the gun to “10”, and make LH shoot best can. There was no charge. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 29, the gun was returned on September 2, 1891 by the Charles Parker Co. of NYC to “make shoot”. The name “Searles” is found in the return order. The price was $1.50.

According to Parker Bros. Stock Book No. 6, the stock configuration was a pistol grip and its specifications were: Length of Pull: 14 ¼”, Drop at Heel: 2 7/8”, Weight: 7 pounds and 14 ounces. The chokes were patterned RH 170 pellets and LH 170 pellets of size 7 shot in a 24” circle at 45 yards.

Parker Bros., Remington Arms Company Inc. and others repaired and reconfigured guns as a major part of the gun trade. Over the years, this Parker may have undergone changes to suit its owners, either at the factory or other competent facility. Complete factory return and repair records do not exist therefore our research team cannot comment, report, or have any responsibility for work performed. It is important to note that those Parker records remaining are hand written and show considerable fading from their age. The research committee has done its best to interpret and report our findings in answer to this request and assumes no responsibility for the recorded accuracy or other work completed.

Sincerely,


Chuck Bishop
The Parker Gun Collectors Association Inc.
P. O. Box 126502, Harrisburg, Pa. 17112

That has got to be one of the most complex PGCA research letters I’ve ever seen.
Congratulations on your diligence Chuck :bowdown:

That gun appears to have been engraved by Jacob Glahn or William Avery, possibly having adopted the style of Gustave Young in the open Germanic scroll style with stippling in the 'negative' spaces.



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Barrels received a clean bill of health. Some oddities though. The left and right barrel have different bore diameters. Oddly enough they don't equate to a difference in choke which seemed robust for being cut. Measured around 15-18 thou. constriction. MBWT came in pretty stout just ahead of the chambers at around 100 thou. and the lowest we found was around 31 thou. near the ends.

Looks like I am going to have to find some 10 gauge shells..........

Was that the gun that was for sale at a Cabela's for $949? I saw it and thought it would sell pretty quick.
Doesn't it have an antlered critter on the floor plate?

Yes, Stag on the left lock plate, Fox on the right. Flying bird on the floor plate.

I'm not a barrel expert but Parker in those days would over bore their 12 gauge barrels. Not unusual in that time period to have .756 bores. Can a gun be rechambered from 12 to 10 and not have the bores increased??? Would the forcing cone have to be modified?

It was a challenging letter to write. If I'm confused as to what something means I just write in the letter how it's stated in the order. I was wondering about the "10", now I know.

And then there are documented 11 gauge Parkers.

Charlie price had documented 112 factory 11 gauge guns, all but one having four-digit serial numbers... that one is ser. no. 46740
this one, 16513 because it was rebored at a later date, may have missed the records...? JMHO

Maybe the barrel shop at Parker Bros. thought removing that additional .015" would compromise the barrel walls...?



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Thanks again Chuck for the consise letter!

There was considerable deliberation as to whether or not the 12 gauge barrels had been altered to 10 bore. I don't remember the exact measurements but we concluded that in order to have taken them to 10 bore the original BWT would have had to have been in the neighborhood of .080. However, I was surprised to find that when I got home and weighed them that they came in at exactly 3 pounds. Unstruck weight was 4.4.

It seems we will never know. The only thing we discussed is whether or not there would be more information in the ledger book columns that were not able to be copied originally. It seems odd the "make 10" would not have included a length.

Thoughts?

Ryan

Again, my thought of 11 gauge seems to be supported by your measurement of .760”


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Just remembered I have a 10 Gauge snap cap. It's a 10 Gauge.

I have a documented 11 gauge and 10 gauge caps don’t fit. For what that’s worth.