LC Smith-Lefever stocks-performance shotshells

[henderson Marriott]

Recent factory performance-based shotshells show both increases in payload and velocity. I reload for various rifle calibers, but not for shotshells.
Boss and other companies specialize in quality reduced pressure ammunition.

This is particularly important if not critical with vintage shotguns approaching 100 years in age. Stocks of older walnut display no sense of humor exposed to heavy recoil. Sideplate shotguns such as those from LC Smith and Lefever
are particularly vulnerable where the rear of the sideplate adjoins or contacts the head of the stock. I own two LC Smith Long Range 3-in shotguns whose stocks are particularly sensitive in this area.

Fortunately, my 3-inch chambered double guns are only used for hunting the elusive Eastern wild turkey. With 100-year old walnut stocks, I am a bit sensitive as to what shotshells enter the chambers of these Long Range Smiths.

Somethig to consider for owners of Lefever, LC Smith and Parker fine shotguns.

[Dean Romig]

They’re used on waterfowl a LOT more than for turkeys, with all due respect.





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[Bill Murphy]

Neither type of quarry requires 3" shells or even higher power 2 3/4" shells.

[Daryl Corona]

Neither type of quarry requires 3" shells or even higher power 2 3/4" shells.

Now this is the post of the year.:bowdown:

[henderson Marriott]

Mine are used almost for nothing but the Eastern variety of wild turkey. (Winchester M-12 Heavy Duck 3in for ducks and geese-have 2.)
Bill/Dean-The Western Merriams sub-species does not have the levels of deceit, chicanery, and down right elusiveness of the Eastern bird. With all due hunting experience in AL, VA. NM, and AZ.

The deep SE turkey must have been bred originally in Iran/Persia.

(Reggie Bishop and I have owned the same 3 in VHE Parker, and we agree about TN-AL turkey gobblers. Doubting Thomas hunters are invited to the SE with their 410 shotguns w/o TSS to try their skill. With all due respect.)

[Stephen Hodges]

Hunting turkeys with a .410 without TSS shot is not only illegal here in NH, but In my opinion downright unethical. Now I know there are folks who will disagree with my statement but I truly believe it. I do think the mystic belief that the eastern turkey is akin to hunting a ghost is way overblown. I have probably killed over 40 easterns in my life, and I do not find them particularly hard to hunt and kill. Whitetail deer are much more difficult as they add the sense of keen smelling abilities to there already keen eyesight and hearing. We are probably lucky that turkeys cannot smell.:)

[henderson Marriott]

Steve:
I agree with your last sentence 100%.
The VA. turkeys are Eastern of course, and I have hunted them successfully. But they do not measure up to those found in the deep south. Maybe it has something to do with being hunted literally for centuries by the likes of D. Boone, Holt Collier, and Ben V. Lilly. I have probably slain at least 35 gobblers in my lifetime, and suggest that you try some of these rebel birds.
The Devil and Daniel Webster may have included some of these fowl under the tutelage of the former. At any rate, they are a different strain of Eastern turkey and those who have hunted them at any length, like Tom Kelly-agree. I have never felt under-gunned or out-thought with any Merriams variety, or even close.(Elk hunters in NM/Colorado are encouraged to take up turkey hunting.) But the last gobbler slain here weighed 21 pounds and sported a 10.5 inch beard. I would not have slain him with anything less than a double 3 inch shotgun, because he was both sly and outdistanced me at 51 yards. But for an immediate second LC Smith Long Range barrel, he would have escaped to tell the tale. In essence, and admittedly, he turned tables on me.
But this turkey was nothing compared to the 4-5 yr old sly mossback who has deceitfully sent me to the monkey house the last couple of years. A will-o-wisp denizen of swamps who haunts cemeteries. He has beaten me on at least two major meetings: chess is an easier game. (But not Rocky Mtn elk hunting.)
A 3-in Parker and an HE Super Fox have been employed without firing a shot at this old gobbler. But this is the Eastern Alabama variety that makes turkey hunting such a grand challenge.

[Drew Hause]

As often discussed, the design defect of 'Long Cracked Smiths' is inadequate wood surface to absorb recoil at the head of the stock. That is where the cracks start

https://photos.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-ZV9CbNw/0/KtbknxGVHGVdRWCxMnmGsvGSZsd8VVvxJ4KcsXhbf/M/DSCF2869-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-ZV9CbNw/A)

then extend into the lockplate inlet, often with a crack at the apex of the inlet

https://photos.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-GcXgWC8/0/Mrm4dSZq5xNzmdsNzb8B5gH3PxKTdwWVbpqXNRxZM/M/DSCF2862%20marked-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-GcXgWC8/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-cvXWtfz/0/K2KTdthjCqDX2M2XcGbxnbPvvGRT4jT7L3RBNwrRd/M/DSCF2861-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-cvXWtfz/A)

Lefever guns do have more surface area, but can also crack

https://photos.smugmug.com/Wood/i-XRskC7j/0/M2SWtDxQmHB4JpGmNFJft7dbjLtN5wQJFbnH4tTKV/L/Lefever%20stock-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Wood/i-XRskC7j/A)

Boxlock Parkers are more likely to crack down the middle of the head

https://photos.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-nHprnVD/0/KVKp8DJ9JkmPhGGjgxmDfgMdFWF9ZRRVL9mZB7KG6/M/dEcIlWWNcYCPLbNdgQmKmAOHTRi16mYf0300%20%282%29-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-nHprnVD/A)

IF the head of the stock is not oil soaked, impregnation with ultra-thin cyanoacrylate glue may prevent cracking.
This stock was treated with Abatron Liquid Wood Epoxy

https://photos.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-KB9tSvM/0/L2Tnjt2P8pm96PfcmK2tWqSVJ9rMNzjm5p22wDLB9/M/Abatron%20Liquid%20Wood%20Epoxy-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Repairs-Restoration/i-KB9tSvM/A)

[Reggie Bishop]

I will say this much. The easterns here in Southeast Tennessee are very much elusive this year. I have been ghosted many times this season. I am not a rookie in the turkey woods but I sure feel like one this year.

[Dean Romig]

I blame rookie turkey hunters out there before the season opens calling in all manner of pseudo imitation turkey calls, ultimately spooking them off.







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[henderson Marriott]

You have a good point as to amateur would-be truck or road hunters before the season
opening. Older gobblers soon learn to be as quiet as Grant's tomb, or to visit quieter country.
*****
Nash Buckingham in the 1930s, with the help of John Olin, found his answer for high-flying ducks near the Mississippi River with a 3-in Super Fox.
A similar recipe has been shown to help with a much larger and shyly elusive native bird.

[Dave Noreen]

Nash Buckingham in the 1930s, with the help of John Olin, found his answer for high-flying ducks near the Mississippi River with a 3-in Super Fox.
A similar recipe has been shown to help with a much larger and shyly elusive native bird.
__________________

More like a decade earlier circa 1921. Nash's article in the September 1955 Outdoor Life, "Magnum Opus" opens with --

"Nearly 35 years ago the late P.C. (Perry) Hooker walked into our sporting goods emporium in Memphis, Tennessee, and handed me eight unmarked boxes of 12 gauge shotgun shells with one hand and a surprisingly heavy leather gun case with the other." Perry goes on to tell Nash that the shells are all #4, but half are regular 2 3/4 inch and half are 3-inches long--Magnums. They are all loaded with a new-fangled slow burning powder that is supposed to give more velocity, and denser shorter shot strings. The gun's an 'over-bored' Magnum. The boss wants you to test them and give him a full report as soon as you can.

Late in the article Nash says the new shells were on the market a year later and still are with the label Super-X, and "I lost no time in acquiring a 10-pound Fox Magnum of my own."

We know the 12- and 20-gauge Super-X loads were on the market in 1922 with the 16-gauge added late that year. We know the heaviest Super-Fox doesn't weigh ten pounds. As much as I enjoy Nash's stories, the most polite thing I can say is he never let exact facts get in the way of a good story!!

[henderson Marriott]

"Mr. Buck"used his 3-in Super Fox right into the late 20s-early 30s to the 1940s on mallards at his BeaverDam Lodge and other duck coverts in MS-TN- Arkansas right up until "Bo Whoop" was lost on an Arkansas road about 1948 or thereabouts. ( Much later:"found") Bert Becker had a hand in the custom boring of Buckingham's personal Super by Fox. Interestingly enough, the first original lost "Bo Whoop" was not fitted with a safety. It now sits in the Ducks Unlimited Museum outside Memphis. Fox XE pattern engraving. My 3-in Super Fox weighs in at about 8 pounds 15 oz. with St Stock, 30 in barrels.

Ironically, an owned 1924 Parker VHE 2 7/8 in shotgun with 32 in barrels can keep right up with the Super using Winchester 3-in Long Beard # 4 shot at any practical range. Last year the Parker managed to down a turkey with these plated #4 lead pellets at a measured 49 yards. These latest Winchester turkey shells might have had both Olin and "Mr. Buck" scratching their heads. (Not for ducks!) The Fox and Parker original stockmakers might be just a little bit proud...or nervous...102 years later.

[Dave Noreen]

Nash had a couple more decades of Bo Whoop II which he eventually moved on to Dr. Andrews. It was included in the diorama at DU headquarters when I visited there many years ago. From Dr. Andrews' book --

141904

Jim Julia let us have Bo Whoop (31088) at the A.H. Fox Collectors table at Las Vegas 2010 for a couple of hours --

141902

141903

[henderson Marriott]

Dave:
I remember these pictures...think they were in the AHFCA magazine or the Fox Forum...or even the Double Gun Journal. There were some excellent articles on Buckingham in the DGJ... and Garden and Gun.
That looks like the original straight stock that was broken on the original Super "Bo Whoop", in the Arkansas road so many years ago. Whoever found it did not run an ad, and it spent many decades in a closet, through a couple of "owners". The history is fascinating, and a blessing that Nash had insured the shotgun.
A lesson also in making sure that your Fox or Parker is safely stored and safeguarded in a vehicle during a hunting trip. Thanks again...