Parker Gun Collectors Association Forum > PGCA Forums > Parker Discussion Forum > More questions than answers.
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Parker Gun Collectors Association Forum > PGCA Forums > Parker Discussion Forum > More questions than answers. |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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There were a lot of comments about my wife’s new gun that she acquired and shot very well with at the recent shoot at Hidden Hollow. My friend Dean really liked it as he was able to clean his first station ever using this gun. I was really hoping to get a letter to help explain some of the unusual features of this gun but unfortunately there is no information available. Therefore I thought the next best thing would be to show some pictures here and get some opinions. The gun 205348 is a Grade 6 12 gage with 30" Acme barrels. There is a second set of Grade 7 Damascus barrels with a second forend both stamped #2 and numbered to the gun. Enjoy the pics and feel free to give your opinions. Attached Image (viewed 155 times): Last edited on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 06:30 pm by Larry Frey |
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john truitt PGCA Member
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Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Those are my thoughts.  |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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I thought all grade 7 guns had Whitworth barrels. Judging from the fit of the dolls head and the barrels to the breech it's a good bet the barrels were fitted at the factory. Attached Image (viewed 156 times): Last edited on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 06:30 pm by Larry Frey |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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The gun has pretty nice wood and a squashed silvers pad. Next question would be where’s the gold grip cap? Attached Image (viewed 342 times): |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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Perhaps the owner did not want the gold cap to draw attention from his initials nicely inlayed in the trigger guard? Attached Image (viewed 343 times): |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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The Damascus barrels are 27" with matting right to the end and both barrels choked cylinder. Cut barrels perhaps? Attached Image (viewed 338 times): |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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But the keels are intact! Attached Image (viewed 337 times): |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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Here's the Damascus barrel flats and forend iron. Notice the grade 7 and #2 stampings as well as the reinforced forend iron. Attached Image (viewed 335 times): |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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Finally the Acme barrels with standard forend lug and stamped grade 6 #1. Attached Image (viewed 335 times): |
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john truitt PGCA Member
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I would think the reinforced barrel lug indicates a trap or pigeon shooter. I would also think original 28" barrels cut to 27". What kind of choke is left in the 27" barrel and how is it chambered? |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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John, not sure about the chambers but the 27's are choked cylinder in both barrels which led me to believe they were cut. If they were it would likely have been from a 30" or greater to remove the Parker choke which would normally be 3-5". I've been told reinstalling keels is not something that just anyone can do which also makes me believe the job was done in Meriden. Attached Image (viewed 320 times): Last edited on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 02:19 am by Larry Frey |
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Dave Suponski PGCA Member
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Larry,As soon as I saw that twinkle in your eye on Friday I was willing to bet even money that gun had found a new home. It is my opinion that those barrels (if in fact are cut) were done at the factory. Also...According to my 1923 Parker pocket catalog Grade 6 AHE guns came furnished with Acme steel barrels. Hope this helps a little.... |
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Pete Lester Member 
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My opinion, you have a lovely wife (and she shoots!) and at least two beautiful guns. I would say it can't get any better but it will when you find the "next" gun  . I agree the 27" inch barrels were probably done at the factory based on the quality of the fit and the keels which you have pointed out. Interesting that it is a combination of damascus and fluid numbered to the gun, perhaps the orginal owner wanted a set for show and set for business/modern ammo? |
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Dean Romig PGCA Member
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Larry, I don't think those are the former owner's initials but that Destiny has proclaimed that Parker to be "Technically Deb's Shotgun" Notice the engraved band behind the wedges on the barrel breeches are done in almost the exact style as the engraving around the breech balls. Simply beautiful in every way. Somehow, somewhere there must be some information on that gun. Have you contacted Mark? |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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Dean, I talked to Mark for quite a while tonight. We as Parker collectors are really lucky to have the resources that we have and people willing to share their time and information so freely. In checking TPS it seems that there were three grade seven guns made with Damascus barrels. None were made to 27" so the barrels were most likely cut at some point. Also it says most grade 7's after 1902 came with single triggers. This gun is stamped on the trigger plate L and R where the trigger selector once was. Obviously this gun was changed from a single to double triggers. I think a letter on this gun would be long and very interesting. |
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Dean Romig PGCA Member
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Larry Frey wrote: I think a letter on this gun would be long and very interesting. . . . if only. Keep digging Larry, something has to come up on that Parker. Run with those initials - that's all you have at this point, there's got to be something somewhere. How about Thomas Donald Stuart Purdey Or try "T Steel" T. D. S. agent for Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show 1878 Last edited on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 02:59 am by Dean Romig |
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Richard Flanders PGCA Member 
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Larry: my 1918 26" GHE12 has matting to the bbl ends, has keels in place, and letters with 26" bbls. Maybe they made it longer and it didn't sell then someone ordered a 26" damascus ghe12 so they just cut them and sent it out??? |
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Timothy Sheldon PGCA Member
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Larry, that is a beautiful gun, the damascus barrels are stunning. PLUS, my initials are TDS . Enjoy that sweet little thang. Tim |
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Kurt Densmore Member
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Stunning!! I am sure the pictures don't do it justice...!! Wow...I guess Tim gets dibs on the beauty... Kurt |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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Hey Tim, you find one with LMF on the trigger guard and we can trade. |
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Ed Blake PGCA Member
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I'm surprised the Acme barrels don't have the reinforced loop. I thought all high grade guns had that feature from what I remember reading in TPS. Very nice indeed. What are the chokes in the Acme set? |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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Ed, I also recall reading that above a certain grade that the reinforced lug was standard but I'm not sure if it was grade 6 or 7. The chokes on the 30" Acme set are right .032 and left .039 and extend almost 5" into the barrels. The gun also has a non automatic safety. |
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Thomas Schiffer Member
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Not so fast! There is a Thomas Durant Schiffer living here on Gumpowder Road! ts |
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Ed Blake PGCA Member
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Larry, it sounds like someone had themselves a skeet/trap set-up with the open chokes on the damascus barrels and tight ones on the Acmes. |
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C Roger Giles PGCA Member
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Larry; If that gun was mine I would take the butt pad off and see if there are any hidden momentos or other items of interest. You are a machinest and butt pad removal should be a snap. Other than my suggestion to destroy a beautiful gun I have nothing further to say except congratulations to your wife on a fine job of breaking clays at HHH. Roger |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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Thanks Roger I will pass along your congratulations. She was complaining the gun was a little long so I was thinking about chopping of an inch or so and adding a new White Line pad. Actually as they say the plot thickens. I received an email from a friend who had a picture of a AAHE with an almost identical trigger guard. Judging from the picture it is highly likely that the same person ordered both guns. The really good news is that the gun pictured below is listed in the A&F records so I may be able to find who the original owner was after all. Attached Image (viewed 172 times): |
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Don Kaas PGCA Member
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Nice gun Larry, good luck with it. |
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Christopher S. Lien PGCA Member
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Larry, Very nice Parker... What are the stock dimensions, LOP, DAC, DAH?... Best, CSL ____________________________ |
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Larry Frey PGCA Member
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Chris, The pad is crushed from many years in a gun cabinet but I measure the gun as follows LOP=14 1/4", DAC=1 5/8", and DAH=2 5/8". |
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Greg Miller PGCA Member
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I think it is a little late for trades now that Deb has won the American with it. As to the TDS, the reference Dean cites above is presumably from the 2001 Julia sale which is online item No. 719. Fine English ivory and silver handle carving set with a 10" blade marked with the manufacturer's name of "HARRISON BROS. & HAWSON" and agent-marked "T STEEL & SON / HARTFORD"....The lid is embossed in Old English script "T.D.S./1878". These are apparently the initials of the agent T. Steel. Julia has the name of the manufacturer of the cutlery wrong it should be Harrison Bros & Howson of Norfolk St. Sheffield. Cutler to her majesty. See generally, http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=2319 Harrison Bros & Howson are still in business in the UK, so perhaps there are records as to their 19th Century agent. "If" all of this conjecture were fact, we have the Connecticut importer of the very finest British Cutlery buying a high grade shotgun with their trademark on the trigger guard from the Gun Division of one of America's largest manufacturers of Cutlery. Do we know if T. Steel & Co. perhaps also sold Parker Cutlery? So, there could be a really good story here. And, as it revolves around Meriden to Hartford, it is all local, so you just might still find the records with a bit of searching in the local historical societies. Also, interesting as we know Parker was selling guns to the Buffalo Bill show, and now we know that the show was also buying high end cutlery through T.Steel per the set sold by Julia. It does not sound that far fetched given the overlap betweent these companies. |
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