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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 04:09 am |
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I have a 1936 VH12 that has Parker on the bottom but not Remington.
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Pat Boccuzzi
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 11:52 am |
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Can you post some pics of the barrel and frame flats and pictures of the Lugs, front , & side ?
Pat
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 01:19 pm |
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Wow. Lots of talk and speculation, suggestions for letters,requests for more photos, etc. If a person has a real interest in the gun, all he has to do is go to the Greg Martin website where there is appropriate disclosure from people with expertise based upon what is known and can be confirmed. The photos that are available are posted there, as they have been for quite some time. This gun is known and has been shown. The gun is offered by a serious collector who has long been a PGCA life member.
A person who has a serious interest in the gun will go to San Francisco anyway for the auction on Feb 26 and can personally inspect the piece.
There are other Parkers in the same auction, some appealing and costly, others not so, and if a person needs to pick up an inexpensive and functional gun, there might be something that appeals to him.
Last edited on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 01:25 pm by Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
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Harry Collins
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 01:48 pm |
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| http://www.gregmartinauctions.com lot 1210
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David Dwyer
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 02:04 pm |
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| I know this collector well and a more honorable man you will not find.
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Pat Boccuzzi
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 02:32 pm |
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A lot of early guns have no blank towards the muzzle but this being a latter gun and with the lettering off it looks wrong.
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Jeff Mulliken
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 03:01 pm |
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I thought that Remington was not allowed to use the name "Parker Bros", but were allowed to use the name Parker.
So is it unusual to see the name Parker Bros and the Meridan address on a "late Remington" era gun?
Jeff
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Dave Noreen
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 03:55 pm |
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Jeff,
That serial number is not a "late Remington gun" but a transition gun. Serial numbers in the 241xxx and 242xxx are "late Remington guns." This gun has the Parker engraved on the bottom of the receiver typical of Remington ownership. A lot of the 1934 to 1937 guns still made in Meriden have a combination of markings. They get somewhat more consistant on the late guns made in Ilion.
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Larry Frey
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 04:42 pm |
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| Now I'm really confused. Not the first time that's happened but after reading the websites description are we to assume that Parker took back the 12 gage 1 1/2 frame gun and used that serial number and created this 10 gage 3 frame gun? That doesn't make much sense, why not just assign the 10 a new number? I have no interest in buying the gun just trying to understand how this VHE became an AHE.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 04:49 pm |
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| Larry, the stock book for this gun is in the PGCA research files. It is not as complicated as you and some others have made it sound. OK, if it is missing from the stock book, the prospective buyer is back to square one, but it should be in there. I just read the catalog description and it implies that the information about the VHE 12 gauge came from PGCA and not "the book" as indicated in an early post on this thread. That admittedly makes the documentation of this gun a bit more difficult. The barrel weight and the 3 1/2" stamp on the "barrel flats" also points to rechambered short chamber barrels, not original 3 1/2" magnum barrels. Maybe someone can post and tell us how much original 3 1/2" Remington barrels weigh or are marked. Destry can check and one of the authors of TPS also has one to check. Last edited on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 04:59 pm by Bill Murphy
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Larry Frey
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 05:34 pm |
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Note: According to the Parker Gun Collectors Association historian the Parker records list 238889 as a 12 gauge, VHE grade, with: 1 1/2 frame, 32 inch barrels, vent rib, single selective trigger, ejectors, large fore-end. The records on the 12 gauge gun are on three IBM cards, and indicate the gun went to two different customers and ended up back with the factory in 1942 waiting for final disposal. There were three guns consecutively made to the 12 bore specifications starting with 238887. The order books end with number 238884. There are no records concerning this 10 gauge magnum AHE. Since it would have been made at the transition between Parker and Remington it appears that it was not recorded with either company.
Bill, it states above that no records for the 10 gage exist. The last statement that because it was a transition gun neither company would have records doesn't make any sense. Dose the note (1942 waiting for final disposal) mean the 12 gage was to be destroyed or resold?
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James T. Kucaba
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 07:54 pm |
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I won't be bidding on this gun ... And while others will be quick to disagree, it's just too expensive a piece to use as a "shooter." ... I want a steel barrel 10 gauge that I can drag out in the desert and shoot without worrying about lowering the gun's collector value and this gun is just TOO NICE for that !
Jim Kucaba ... Phoenix AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 08:00 pm |
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I'll check my gun out when I get home tonight.
Destry
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 08:29 pm |
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| James, what's out on that desert that is properly pursued with a magnum ten? I shot a great full feathered red fox a couple of years ago with my ten gauge AYA at about 50 yards. Maybe that's the kind of game you have in mind.
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Austin W Hogan
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Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 12:58 am |
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I would like to call your attention to the Remington memo we carried in the article on ending the Parker Operation in Parker Pages two issues ago. It noted that any Parker was saleable at any grade.
An article on serialization, a few years earlier, carried a sketch by Runge indicating that s/n's were entered in the first warehouse when frame barrel and forend iron were soft fitted to begin a gun. Remington replaced Parker's order book inventory and production control with an IBM card system that removed most component and stage of production reference. The full s/n on major components, and last 3 digits on minor components is essential to a soft fitted/final fitted production Q/C system. A duplicated s/n would have brought havoc in a soft fit assembly process.
Best, Austin
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 01:09 am |
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| . . . presuming both serial number guns were in the shop at the same time.
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James T. Kucaba
PGCA Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 11:03 am |
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Bill Murphy wrote: James, what's out on that desert that is properly pursued with a magnum ten? I shot a great full feathered red fox a couple of years ago with my ten gauge AYA at about 50 yards. Maybe that's the kind of game you have in mind.
Murphy ... I hunt Cactus Wren in the desert ... They're hard to hit because speedy little devils so a 10ga with open chokes provides wide patterns and the hulls hold a lot of #10 shot ... Not many people hunt them because like field mice, they're hard to clean and you need a lot of them to make a decent meal. They're a very flavorful little bird with a taste akin to Spotted Owl or American Bald Eagle ... And the people of AriZOOna love the little buzzards so much that they even made it the State Bird.
Jim Kucaba ... Phoenix AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 07:14 pm |
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Ok, finally remembered to check out the markings on my 10 gauge magnum. On the side of the lug it’s marked:
V Grade 10 GA For 3 ½ “ Shells
On the bottom of the barrels the marks are:
The serial number – 133936
Made In USA
The Parker Overload stamp
5 – 13 as the barrel weight
A symbol that looks like a small sunburst
The letters HT over A
It’s an older gun that’s been sent back to Remington for the magnum barrels. It’s a G grade but whoever did it obviously went for the less expensive V grade barrels. So if this supposed A grade magnum is straight up it should have very similar barrel markings to mine I’d imagine.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 09:32 pm |
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| James, thanks for the information on ten gauge use in the desert. We use tens with small shot for flock shooting yellow finches when they group up in winter. Same deal, they only make a meal when you can kill them by the fifties. Destry's gun is properly marked with the chamber length on the side of the lug. I looked at the gun long and hard before deciding not to buy it. I had a Lefever sleeved DH mag ten and didn't really need another. The AHE, I have heard, is marked on the flats, a sign of a gun that didn't come that way from the factory. It is truly a nice gun but with issues of originality.
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David Hamilton
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 04:51 pm |
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I am afraid that we will all be as extinct as the yellow finches--soon!
We will have to return to savoring nightingale tongue, taken, of course, with a 10 ga magnum Parker.
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