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Don Kaas
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Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 07:47 pm |
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All's well that ends well I once owned a Becker Fox. When I tooks the triggerguard off to tighten the tang screws, the triggerguard turned out to be from one of Nash Buckingham's Foxes thus recycled by Burt Becker.Last edited on Tue Sep 25th, 2007 07:51 pm by Don Kaas
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 09:30 pm |
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| Bob, are you ordering a PGCA letter on both serial numbers?
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 02:24 am |
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| I wonder if a letter would address that unusual non-capped pistol grip.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 11:50 am |
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| I doubt that the "unusual uncapped pistol grip" originated at the Parker Brothers plant unless it went out on a Trojan.
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 01:23 pm |
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| Ditto, Bill.
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Bob Brown
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Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 03:45 pm |
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| I doubt I'll letter both numbers, Bill. If the owner of 88761 sees this he may want to get a letter on it though. The stock isn't original to the gun. I never considered it may be a Trojan stock. It doesn't have any checkering and is feels a little thicker in the grip than my other grades so I doubt it. There's no cracks, but the wood has been reinforced with epoxy under the trigger guard and I don't see a serial number. I have a 1 frame Parker stock being shipped that might arrive today. I'll try it on this one, but I do like the long LOP and high DAH on the current stock. I might just get it shaped, capped, and checkered.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 05:20 pm |
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| If the inletting is acceptable, I would get it shaped, checkered, and finished. I have a nice 20 gauge that I purchased with an inletted block of wood installed. It was a great buy, couldn't pass it up. I had it shaped and finished in a little heavier than Parker style at Del Grego's and it is one of my favorite shooting guns 20 years later.
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Bob Brown
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Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 06:34 pm |
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| That sounds like good advice, Bill. The inletting is fine as it is. I also have a 0 frame 20 and a 1 1/2 frame DH 12 that have aftermarket replacement stocks. I'll see if the stock that is coming will fit on one of those.
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John Davis
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 01:27 am |
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| Charlie Young shot under the name "Robin Hood" in the 1900 and 1901 Grand American at clay targets.
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Chuck Bishop
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 11:07 am |
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| Charles "Sparrow" Young is a member of the Trapshooting Hall of Fame. He did work at one time for the Robin Hood Powder Co and took the nom de plume of Robin Hood. Read more about Sparrow Young at: http://www.traphof.org/inductees/young_charles_sparrow.htm
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Chuck Bishop
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 12:37 pm |
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| I would mention both serial numbers when requesting a PGCA letter. I'm sure our historian will give the trigger guard number a look without charging for two letters. I can't believe that curiousity hasn't gotten the best of you yet. A link to any of these competitive shooters would lend interest and value to this gun.
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Ken Hurst
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 07:16 pm |
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| I agree with Mr. Bill M. --- I have looked very carefully at the engraving and feel it was cut by the same person at the factory at the same time the frame was cut. All the ear marks/finger prints are there --- even the wear pattern matches. ken
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 09:25 pm |
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| Thanks for the comment, Ken. The bottom line is that any gun that can be attached to Sparrow Young will have some serious interest for a small group of collectors. A connection with anyone from Dupont or Robin Hood Powder Company would create a similar but lesser interest. Any connection with an early participant in a Grand American Handicap, whether a winner or a loser, will also create interest. Remember, in a bidding war, you only need two interested and agressive bidders to get the selling price up to market value.
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Bob Brown
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Posted: Mon Mar 31st, 2008 12:41 am |
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Thanks for the information, I'll send for a letter. I was meaning to get to it, and now I've got a couple more that I want to have lettered as well as a Parker Found to send in. Ken, the serialization book has it on an 1898 12 gauge BH, so it may have been the same hand, but it might not have been cut at the same time. The 1 frame stock didn't come close to fitting the GH 0 frame, but it is a very good fit on the 1901 DH 1 1/2 frame. The original DH's longer tang trigger guard didn't fit the inletting, so the Robin Hood guard is on there for now. It looks good with the DH scroll engraving so it may stay on it if the letter doesn't show a connection between the 16 and the RH guard. By the way the serial number is worn off the guard has seen alot of shooting and the 16 may not be the first gun it was transferred to. I'm looking to buy either a GH or DH short tang trigger guard if anyone has one. Thanks again.
Bob
Last edited on Mon Mar 31st, 2008 01:04 am by Bob Brown
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Mon Mar 31st, 2008 09:45 am |
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| Bob, Parker Bros should have stamped the serial number on the underside of the trigger guard tang as well. Simply remove the screw, lift the tang out of its recess in the grip and rotate it out to the side to be able to read the original serial number.
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Bob Brown
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Posted: Mon Mar 31st, 2008 03:21 pm |
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| Dean, that is how I found out that the guard didn't match the gun. The serial number on the inside was 88761. This is listed as a TI5, hammerless, no extras, capped, 12 gauge with 30" barrels. With the short trigger guard it was likely a 1 frame.
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Frank Townsend
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 12:26 am |
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| He looks like a happy man! Attached Image (viewed 294 times):
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So many Parker, so little time!
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Bob Brown
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 04:31 pm |
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Well, the four letters I sent for arrived yesterday. Some how in spite of the preparations for the challenge Mark Conrad was still able to get them off. Thanks Mark. I decided to get a letter for the Robin Hood trigger guard gun as well as the GH 16. The others were a 1 1/2 frame DH 12 and an 1890 EH 10. Sorry in advance for the long post.
Not too much info on the 16. #61885 was ordered by Hibbardd, Spencer, and Bartlett Company of Chicago on Sept 29, 1890, and shipped two days later. 28" damascus barrels choked full and full. Capped pg stock weighing 6lbs 12 oz and cost $80.
The Robin Hood trigger guard gun was more interesting. John Davis may have hit it dead on. 88761 was ordered July 25th, 1897, by W.G. Neilands and Company of Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Winnipeg is my home town but I don't recognize the name. It was shipped to William M. Ferguson in Grand Forbes, North Dakota on September 14th, 1897. It must have been a wonderful gun. A BH 12 gauge with 30" Titanic steel barrels and one Lyman sight. It had a capped pistol grip stock with Monte Carlo. My serialization book says that guns with Monte Carlo stocks should have a M for stock configuration but this one just has C. Were there many Parkers with Monte Carlo stocks in this time period? The chokes were full both sides. Quote from letter "The order specified to engrave shield "Robin Hood". So we now know that it was factory engraving. Stock book 31 had it as LOP 14", DAC 1 3/4", DOH 2 1/4" and 3", weight 7 lbs 13 oz. The cost was $200 plus $0.50 for the Lyman sight. Is this the Ferguson with connections to Parker Brothers? There is no mention of a discount, perhaps the connection came later? Does anyone have more information on Ferguson?
The letter for the 1 1/2 frame DH 12 that the RH trigger guard is currently on arrived as well. #111116 was ordered and shipped to T.H. Keller of New York in January 1903. I was pleasantly surprised to see the 30" damascus barrels were factory choked as they are now, RH full and LH cylinder. I thought that someone may have opened up the left barrel. Cost was $100 and weight was 7 lbs even. I bought a 32" VH12 a few months ago without having seen the gun. I barely glanced at it before I put it in the safe. I took it out a week ago and noticed that it had a GH trigger guard that fit the GH16 fine, so the Robin Hood guard will likely stay on the DH. I had another spare VH guard that went on the 32" gun so it worked out well.
It makes one wonder the places our guns have been and the things they have seen. We are very fortunate to have access to the records. Thanks Mark and the PGCA.
Last edited on Wed Apr 30th, 2008 04:39 pm by Bob Brown
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 05:14 pm |
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| I just started looking, but found something right out of the chute. T.H.Keller is listed as a professional shooter in New York in 1915. I don't know who he worked for but it is probably Robin Hood or whatever company made Robin Hood shells or powder. I assume he moved the trigger guard from the older gun to a newer gun to avoid having to have the engraving done again. You're getting pretty close to the real story, I think. In 1921, T.H. Keller was on the American Trapshooting Association Executive Committee. Last edited on Wed Apr 30th, 2008 05:22 pm by Bill Murphy
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John Davis
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 05:26 pm |
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| I believe the Robin Hood trigger guard origianlly goes back to Ferguson who shot under the same name (RH). Where it leads from there who knows but I'll bet it's an interesting story. I thought I had another Parker reference to Ferguson but I haven't found it as yet.
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