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James T. Kucaba
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 09:34 am |
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I've decided that it's time to buy a Gun Safe ... I'll need to get a larger size safe because I've got a lot of guns now ... The trouble is that I don't know a thing about Gun Safes, so I'd really appreciate any advice anyone can offer about what to look for and what to avoid when purchasing a safe.
THANKS ! ... Jim Kucaba ... Phoenix AriZOOna ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com
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"The price of critics NEVER changes ... They're ALWAYS a dime a dozen !"
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Danny McHugh
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 10:16 am |
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James
I have had good luck with a Liberty but if I had to do it all over again it would be this company.
http://www.hallsafe.com/
Just make sure you buy "big"
Danny
____________________
Integrity is like virginity, only you can give it away and only once!
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daryl middlebrook
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 11:58 am |
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James
Listen to Danny!!! Big,Big,Big------------BIG. Better yet, BIGGER.
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Charlie Price
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| Joined: | Sun Jan 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Kingston, TN |
| Posts: | 63 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 01:47 pm |
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| Jim: My safe is about 20 years old and too small. When I was safe shopping I concluded that all the better brands were about the same and they may all be made by the same factory. I bought one that is supposed to withstand a house fire. My big complaint is with the racks that hold the long guns. There are "notches" to hold the barrels but they are too narrow for SXS doubles and an O/U double with vent rib "wobbles" in the notch. Thus, these guns are not well supported and can easily slip out of the notch and bang against each other. Shop around plenty and good luck. Charlie
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Leighton Stallones
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| Joined: | Wed Aug 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | Austin,Texas |
| Posts: | 228 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 03:44 pm |
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| I have a couple of Ft. Knox Safes and they are strong, very difficult to break into and each hold about 30 guns. Check em out! http://www.ftknox.com/
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Bill Murphy
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| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 04:28 pm |
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| I have large safes and smaller safes. The large ones are nice, but the smaller ones can be moved, empty, with a hand cart by someone familiar with such a tool. I like the idea of being able to move the safe by myself if I choose to. Two smaller safes can be bolted together when in place and are as secure as one big one when bolted. Charlie is right about many safes being set up incorrectly. A fellow Parker guy gave me a Browning document safe that is designed to be "fireproof". It did not have a gun interior which allowed me to set up my own idea of what is right. I prefer an upper shelf that is set up with carpeted holes that prevent the guns from tipping into each other. A "part gun, part shelves" safe is a joke. We all have enough guns to fill the whole safe.
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 04:33 pm |
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I've looked at many over the years and find that, at least up here in Ak, the Liberty safes seem to lock up the tightest with no door looseness, have the most abundant and biggest locking bolts, and offer the highest temperature ratings available. I'm a bit behind lately as there seems to be quite a few more available now, but I had decided on a Liberty were I to get one. And I've always been told the same thing as the others are offering... buy twice as much safe as you think you'll ever need and MAYBE it will be enough right now. And don't think of it as just a 'gun safe'--At my sisters house the gun safe has become a repository for every irreplaceable family document and old picture that any of us 5 siblings have and it has become quite a pile. She has all her jewelry in there; you name it, it's in the safe and secure. I'd also encourage folks to install a light or other low heat source if your safe is in a place where it can condense moisture. I found rust and mould on leather on a WWII Japanese gun in my sisters safe from just that. Basement safes against outside walls and/or on concrete floors that are not heated slabs are ripe for this. They have since installed a heater of some sort using the port provided for just that.
I'd be curious as to opinions as to the importance of the fire ratings of these various gun safes. Were I to put one in my basement, which is the only place for it, and I had a fire, my house made of 13"-24" logs would collapse into the concrete basement and likely turn the safe into an unrecognizable mass of molten steel before/if the fire could be put out, so I put little stock in the published numbers. At any rate, the guaranteed temperature is generally high enough it seems to burn the finish off a quality gun which would greatly decrease the value. This is all assuming of course that the fire crew isn't able to quickly put a fire out. I live 500yds from our volunteer firehouse but a log house like mine would burn vigorously to put it mildly. I like the security factor of a gun safe but don't think much of the fire ratings.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 04:56 pm |
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| Richard's assessment matches my opinion. Use the savings from your insurance premiums to build a concrete bunker to store your guns and valuables.
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Dan Houghton
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| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Azle, Texas USA |
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 08:33 pm |
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| I agree that bigger is better to a point. Two medium sized safes are easier to deal with than one monster. An 800 pounder is relativly easy to move for room to room if necessary with 2 people. Rock the safe onto it's edge and roll golf balls under it. Move the golf balls from the back to the front as you roll the safe across the floor. works like a charm.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 08:49 pm |
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| I have always used fairly large diameter dowels or pipe sections, but the golf ball idea is just wonderful. Thanks so much for an idea that I had never tried. Obviously there is nothing new under the sun.
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paul harm
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 12:08 am |
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| I had a celler in the basement under the porch . Waterproofed it , installed 1/2" plywood all around , and put in a steel door with hinges that can't be removed , two dead bolts installed . A pro could get in anything , but I think it's fairly fireproof and will keep most thieves out . Paul
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Tom Bria
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| Joined: | Fri Jan 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 526 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 09:29 pm |
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The golf ball idea will work, but don't try it on hardwood floors with a heavy safe, or you will wind up with indented (and reverse dimpled) tracks revealing the path of the safe's movement. Standard industrial practice for heavy items on hard floors is pipe sections. You can use heavy rosin paper to protect the floor from most scratches. The larger the pipe diameter, the more easily they will roll. If you are moving a moderately heavy safe on most carpeted surfaces, you can probably get by with some of the higher quality teflon sliders that are now available in the market. The bigger the glide, the better it works. I found some a few years ago that are about 6"x9" and they work great on carpets. I have a separate set for moving things on smooth concrete. When you are moving the safe, have a helper pull from a strap around the bottom of the safe while you push from the other side; the pulling from the bottom makes it less likely that the safe will tip if you encounter resistance. Don't ever assume that the safe will actually hold the number of guns it's "rated" for. For example, a 30-gun safe will conveniently hold maybe 20 guns. You can get 30 guns into it, but it's a real pain. That's part of the reason to buy bigger than you think you need. I second the suggestion to use multiple smaller safes and bolt them together (and to the walls and floor) after moving them into place. That creates a modular safe that you can add to later. If your safe is in the basement, and if the fire department shows up, your basement (and your safe) will be filled with foul water after the fire is put out. It will probably remain underwater until the demolition crew arrives, and that won't be until after the insurance adjuster completes the initial assessment. When you decide what you want, try to purchase it locally, because the freight charge on a safe is horrendous, and trucking companies will normally only deliver curbside to a residential address. Getting it into the house or garage becomes your problem. A local dealer will usually, for an extra fee, put the safe exactly where you want it. Humidity is not likely to be a problem in Phoenix, but it's still a good idea to put a GoldenRod in the safe to prevent condensation.
Last, but far from least, spend the money for a digital lock. It's just so much more convenient than the standard combo lock. If you find a safe you like at a great price, you can usually have the electronic lock retrofitted for less than $200.
Last edited on Sun Nov 26th, 2006 09:35 pm by Tom Bria
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 05:28 am |
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| Moving a heavy safe can certainly be a problem. Three of us moved my neighbors the length of his house on carpet then slate floor by tipping it up and sliding a sheet of plywood under it then just twisting it one way then the other the length and onto a second sheet. I guess he had no rollers. And this was a big safe..1400# or something.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 12:26 pm |
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| Heavy safes are a pain. I had a large jeweler's safe and wanted to change the railroad plates under the wheels so put two standard sixties variety bumper jacks under one side and started jacking. The safe did not move, and, slowly, the jacks started to self destruct, a notch at a time. Another time, I was moving a fairly large safe through a doorway into my loading room. Two helpers were pushing the safe from the other side of the doorway while I handled the hand cart. The cart hit a small piece of debris and the pushers kept pushing until the safe slowly settled, cart included, onto my now supine body. My helpers had to go around the house to rescue me from my predicament.
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Richard Dow
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| Joined: | Wed Apr 20th, 2005 |
| Location: | California USA |
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 10:12 pm |
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| Danny's suggestion is right on. They'll get it delivered to the right spot and even though they have a new owner they promised to move it one time in the future for free. Hall's of Auburn is not assoc. with Hall's safes back East.RD
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allen newell
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 10:38 pm |
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About 4 years ago I purchased a safe from the Cannon Safe Co. It is their 'American Eagle' model and cost me $1,099. Weighs about 800 lbs. I forget what the fire rating is on this model but do remember concluding during the purchase that the only benefit the fire rating gave was the amount of time you had to enter the house (while it's burning down - ee gads!) before your weapons finally incinerated. The higher the fire rating, the more time it takes for the guns to burn up - but in any real house fire, your guns will eventually burn. I concluded that a nominal fire rating would be ok, focus on how many guns and misc. stuff you want to keep safe from intruders, your kids and their friends and for how long. My safe has removable shelves on the right side - so when I fill up the left side of the safe (we're just about there) I can take the shelves out on the other side (where will my knife collection, important papers, my wife's jewelry etc. go?) and load it up with more guns.
My sense is to get a safe that will give you at least 20 minutes in a fire, After that, focus on size and bigger is better because you'll think of more crap to store in it (with help from your wife once she sees the benefits!) than just weapons/guns.
Also, make sure it has a heating element - this is the real protection from RUST!
I went with a toch pad combination. The lock bolts are numerous and huge on this model. We've had no breakins to date.
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allen newell
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Frank DAmico
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 10:59 pm |
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I don't think having a heavy safe is necessary if you bolt it to the floor securely. I got a nice Redhead 12/24 from Bass Pro for about 600.00 a year ago. They loaded it in my truck and my son and I were able to get it in the house. I bolted it down to my concrete slab with 4 1/2" diameter wedge anchors. It also gains significant weight from the guns and ammo. Most of us ordinary Joes are not going to get the attention of a professional safe cracker.
I keep my guns muzzle down and they seem to fit better that way. I am starting to wish I had bought 2 of the damn things though.
Last edited on Mon Nov 27th, 2006 11:01 pm by Frank DAmico
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Danny McHugh
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 11:21 pm |
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| I think the most important thing if you have a basement is mount it in the garage on the slab. Less things to burn on top of it!
____________________
Integrity is like virginity, only you can give it away and only once!
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 12:49 am |
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| I have a neighbor, a class III guy, who has quite the gun oriented basement. He built a concrete vault into the side of the basement and got an old bank vault door and installed that... I don't think he'll be suffering any thievery. He also has a 50'long 48" dia piece of steel oil pipeline buried into the hillside and protruding into his basement that serves as his indoor firing range, complete with lights and a target trolley. His son worked for me and related fond childhood memories of waking at 0500 to automatic weapons fire coming from the basement.... His wife is a very patient lady and definitely a "keeper".
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allen newell
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 01:18 am |
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| I meant to add to my earlier post on this subject thwe following information regarding the safe that I purchased. It is rated for 1200 degrees and 30 minutes till burn. The only drawback or concern I'd have when placing one of these safes on a concrete floor is dampness. You want to be sure that wherever it's installed you have good humity control - inside the safe and out. Weight is not a factor except that I think it does have something to do with the amount of fire rating and insulation as well as break-in protection.
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allen newell
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