Chamber length

[Joe Wood]

Quick question: when did Parker make it a standard practice to cut chambers 2 3/4" instead of 2 5/8?

[Ray Masciarella]

If you're talking about 12 ga, the original length was 2 1/2, not 2 5/8 and I don't know that Parker ever changed it before the sale to Rem

[Researcher]

Parker Bros. as many gunmakers of the time held their chamber 1/8 inch shorter then the intended shell. So, a 12-gauge gun with a 2 5/8 inch chamber was intended for a 2 3/4 inch shell. This is spelled out on the Remington era specification sheets reproduced on pages 164-169 of The Parker Story.

[Austin W Hogan]

The current SAAMI spec for shotshells is attached. Note that max uncrimped length is
2.76 - .100 or 2.66 inches which is 2 5/8 if you use a ruler as Bruce shows. Minimum length is 2 .5 inches.

Parker catalogs indicate that the customer could specify chamber length and Winchester catalogs through 1910, and perhaps later allow the customer to select shell length when ordered in case lots.

The current Parker Pages shows methods of measuring chamber length; a blade type chamber gauge is "fail safe"; it will measure a tight chamber as a short chamber.

If there is a transition, it probably coincided with the change to Remington management discontinuing the availability of a chamber of the customer's choice.

Best, Austin

[Researcher]

In my Rem-UMC catalogues from 1910 to 1919 they offer the special length shells, though by that time the 3 1/4 inch 12-guage shells had disappeared. This from the 1915-16 Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogue --



While the general tables for their 12-gauge shells list the 2 5/8 inch shell as the basic length, and for 20-gauge shells the 2 1/2 inch shell as the basic length, certain popular loads were only put up in the 2 3/4 inch case --

[Austin W Hogan]

Thanks Dave; that fills an important unknown period. The Winchester data I quoted was from the 1890 and 1910 catalogs. We showed some 1930's Remington data from Ken Waite Jr Remington salesman's catalogs in PP last year; Remington was offering short low base shells, and short black powder loads through the 1930's, although your data indicates that they dropped some shell lengths prior to WW I.
The one that has always intrigued me is Stadt Winchester Shotguns and Shotshells. Winchester redesignated the 1893 as the 1897 when 2 3/4 inch shells were begun; they also labelled 2 3/4 inch shells as for "repeaters" for 20 more years.
The spec I posted was from SAAMI. I have inquired to SAAMI for contributions to technical articles several times , but have recieved no response. Parker apparently joined the fore runner of SAAMI around s/n 215000 when they began stamping barrels "overload proved". This follows Remington's and probably other makers cessation of cataloging of many shell lengths.that you show
The real question to be answered is this; were standard shell lengths always .100 inch less than the listed nominal as they are now? We can only learn this by measuring some old, unfired shells.
Best, Austin

[Researcher]

While I don't have a lot of Winchester shotshell paper, I was under the impression that the "Repeater" was a grade of Winchester shotshell. "Repeater" was a low brass shell, while their best shell was their high brass "Leader." Several of the boxes shown in Stadt state "Repeater Grade Paper Shot Shells."

[10ga Hammer]

SHELL1.jpg

SHELL2.jpg

[Austin W Hogan]

Robert; Can you lay a scale beside those shells and repeat the photo?

Thanks, Austin

[10ga Hammer]

Looks like 2 7/16 to my eye, but in light of the fact it's roll crimped, call it 2 1/2 ?? All three measure the same.

SHELL3.JPG