Defining a Parker Long Range shotgun

[Harry Gietler]

Well after reading (8) pages of Long Range Double guns, this is ''My'' take
on the subject, I have owned 10ga. guns and all the other so called Old long range guns, Ithaca, Fox, Parker, & l.C. Smiths, But the only ones I use now for Serious hunting are Browning B-SS doubles. I shoot any length shells,(up to 3''), No Steel shot, don't worry about the wood cracking, don't worry about low pressure shells, can shoot 17/8oz. loads with no problem if I want to, and the weight of my heaviest one is under 8lbs. The BEST part is they cost under $2000.
And they are stronger than any of those other guns I mentioned!

Harry

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

That is an interesting BHE Parker. Early accounts at Beaver Dam had Nash Buckingham
shooting ducks in the teens with a 34 inch Parker.

A Jan-Feb 1975 article in HANDLOADER magazine entitled "Super Goose Loads"
features lab-tested copper-plated 12 Ga 1 1/4 oz No. 2 and 1 3/8 oz BB loads that give 70 percent patterns at 70 yards. The author was alternating 2 3/4 in and 3 in 12 GA loading tests
but had to adjust back a bit due to pressures. Most were "Mini-Magnum 2 3/4 loaded shells". I can imagine. At any rate, that level
of performance comes at too high a price for most of our double guns. RST and Boss, or earlier reasonable pressure factory shells and/or custom hand crafted shot shells are preferred. It is, after all, what we chamber in our shotguns that may make them safely
worthy of the title "long range".

[Bill Murphy]

Colonel, can you post a scan of the Handloader article that describes the 70% pattern at 70 yards? Thanks.

[Drew Hause]

Bro. Williamson didn't do quite that good



Capt. Charles Askins and E.M. Sweeley “Ballistics of the Shotgun” series in Outdoor Life
“Late Developments in Guns and Ammunition” DuPont’s powder and Western’s Super-X loads
https://archive.org/details/sim_outd...e/234/mode/2up

November 1923, “An American Super 12” The Super Fox boring & patterns
https://archive.org/details/sim_outd...e/356/mode/2up

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

Bill:

This 1975 Handloader article by Tom Roster is 7 pages long and is well-researched, to include submission of the 1 1/2 BB load to Du Pont's ballistic lab. "Dupont reported the load traveling at an acceptable average velocity of 1230 fps with an EV of 49 fps, but generating chamber pressure averaging 14,600 lup with an unusual EV of 3800 lup." "Unfortunately, it became apparent that while delivering marvelous dense patterns, the load was producing dangerous chamber pressures."

After changing his loading technique and coppered BBs to 1 3/8 oz: "Performance with the 1 3/8 BB load was also better than the 1 1/2 oz load in factory barrels at 80 yards, averaging 42 BBs for a remarkable 58 percent, while remaining essentially the same as the 1 1/2 oz load at 40,60 and 70 yards." " Dupont reported the 1 3/8 oz BB load as moving at an average velocity of 1177 with an EV of 70 fps. The load generated safe average chamber pressure of 8900 l u p with an acceptable EV of 2000 lup. Du Pont also confirmed that the powder charge could be increased by 1-1.5 grs which should produce a velocity of slightly over 1200 fps with a safe chamber pressure."

Roster and his hunting companions also did post-hunt autopsies on Canadensis Moffitti,
Lesser and Greater, along with snow geese-showing the BB-load effectiveness.

The article is exhaustive in its research, and coupled with the Dupont Ballistic Lab confirmation of velocities and pressures, does have value in determining acceptable load
results . The key, as in any valid scientific research, is that it can be repeated by another
individual hunter/reloader , ballistics researcher or ballistics lab- as the two labs in this case.

The article does support 78 % (87 pellets) at 60 yards ; 71 pellets (63%) at 70 yards
with Alcan's Ballistic Lab reporting the load moving at 1225 fps with a chamber pressure of 8900 lup.
(The article also supports what many hunters/reloaders know: heavier shot like # 4, 2, and BBs hold velocity better at longer ranges.)

A full scan of 7 pages from this Handloader Magazine article really would tax my ancient computer to the limit, but the article is available from Handloader/Rifle -Wolfe Publications, Prescott, AZ.
Or-I can bring it to the Southern SXS next year- and/or may burn copies for the serious shot shell reloader.

I tend to be past taking risks with my 3 in or 2 3/4 in Parker, LC Smith or Fox guns; there is the safety factor, my eyesight, and the fact that
they are not making any more of the original guns! RM