Defining a Parker Long Range shotgun

[OH Osthaus]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

You often write glowingly and with tidbits of info on Super-Fox guns; perhaps you can provide the references by Askins and Buck to the frames and to that effect? What I've seen are period comments relating to the earliest barrel caliber, i.e., nominally .748/750", which approached 10-gauge bore sizing (actually about 11-gauge). Most Super-Fox frames were made from from 12-gauge frame forgings but machined with somewhat wider width across the breech balls and also at the back end of the frame where it abuts the head of the stock. I wrote "most" because some small number of Supers were "ordered light" and were made up on regular machined frames and running as light as ~ 8-1/4 pounds. For anyone interested and wanting to get into the lore of Supers, it would be well to refer to the index of Super-Fox articles in the DGJ that's on the paying members part of the Fox Collectors forum; plenty of good reading and tech info therein. frank

what Frank modestly leaves out is that he authored several of those articles
and knows very well what he is talking about.

[Randy Roberts]

Originally Posted by Rick Losey

I think many of us would rate the 32” 3 frame 12 ga Parker as being as close to the Super Fox as Parker made

Rick there will be one of these at Hausmanns, actually a 34" 12 on the 3 frame with Damascus barrels. 152 thou at the end of the chambers. Unstruck barrel weight of 6-8 with a total weight at 1 oz under 10 lbs.

[Researcher]

These were developed by John Olin at Winchester-Western and first used by Charles Askins and Nash Buckingham with a couple of AH Fox HE 3 in Super Fox guns bored by Bert Becker about 1923-25.

It wasn't Winchester-Western, it was Western Cartridge Company! The Olins didn't buy the defunct Winchester Repeating Arms Company until the end of 1931. Askins and Sweeley were at the A.H. Fox factory working with Becker the summer of 1921. Buckingham's testing of an early Super-Fox and early Western progressive burning powder shells, written up in his article "Magnum Opus" in the September 1955, Outdoor Life, likely took place in the fall of 1921. The 2 3/4-inch 12- and 20-gauge Super-X shells were on the market for the 1922 season with the 16-gauge Super-X 1 1/8-ounce load added late that year. This magazine ad appeared in the October 1922, issue of National Sportsman and other sporting magazines.

Ad introduces 16-ga Super-X load in Field Shell Oct. 1922.jpg

The term "Magnum" wasn't applied to the 12-gauge, 3-inch, Super-X 1 3/8-ounce load. The term "Magnum" was used to describe the 12-gauge, 3-inch, 1 5/8-ounce load which came out in 1935, along with the Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck.

Super-X 12-gauge, 3-inch, 1 3-8 ounce #4Ls top.jpg

RECORD Super-X 12-gauge 3-inch MAGNUM #5 chilled.jpg

[Reggie B]

Originally Posted by Randy G Roberts

Rick there will be one of these at Hausmanns, actually a 34" 12 on the 3 frame with Damascus barrels. 152 thou at the end of the chambers. Unstruck barrel weight of 6-8 with a total weight at 1 oz under 10 lbs.

Is that one you will be shooting Randy? Or displaying?

[Randy Roberts]

Originally Posted by Reggie Bishop

Is that one you will be shooting Randy? Or displaying?

It will be in the Peoples Choice Awards. I do shoot wobble trap with it, plenty of choke.

[Bill Murphy]

The guns that Parker Brothers or Remington advertised as "Long Range" guns with 3" chambers were not similar or identical to earlier 3" chamber 12 gauge guns. The thirties vintage 3" guns were lightly constructed #1 1/2 frame guns. Many, well, maybe not many, earlier guns chambered for 3" shells were built on many different frames, #2, #3, and a very few eight gauge rebarrels on #6 frames. However, they were built earlier than the Remington advertised "Long Range" guns on # 1 1/2 frames. As earlier posted, it is assumed that the Remington era "Long Range" guns were straight tapered from the breech, but an actual wall thickness measurement would confirm that assumption. I have yet to hear from someone who has made and posted those measurements.

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

As well built and as strong as the Super Fox HE grade and the later Fox Sterlingworth 3- inch guns were, they seem to have served best with goose and duck hunters.
Unless ordered with lesser weight barrels, and less overall weight-they were not ideal for
hunting wild turkey. ( From direct experience in the East and Western United States).

In this instance, the LC Smith Long Range , Winchester Heavy Duck M-12, and Parker Long Range guns may well have held a weight advantage. However, a number of Super Fox actual users, then and now- attribute longer range of the HE grade, gun to gun.
It is also a factor that the Winchester M-12 3-inch Heavy Duck guns held a price advantage and continued to be produced. Unless these long range shotguns are compared with relative weights, ranges, pattern densities and modern available shot shells- it becomes a matter of opinion.

However, in hunting with all of them except the Parker Long Range gun, I have established some comparative objective performance standards concerning the guns that I own.
Hence, the original question which has been partially answered.
{The opinions of the author are his own, and are based on his own hunting experiences utilizing various shot shells from manufacturers in his own shotguns.}

Hopefully, this has been of some value to the membership.

[Bill Murphy]

Colonel, if carrying weight is a consideration, the 7 1/2 pound Model 21 Winchester 3" gun and the 7 1/2 pound Remington era 3" chamber, "Long Range" Parker win hands down. The 3" Model 21 used barrels that are identical to 2 3/4" barrels and the gun weight is also the same. We will wait to see if someone will measure the wall thickness of a Remington era 3" Parker and compare those measurements to a common 1 1/2 frame 12 gauge of the same era. The Remington era 3" Parkers I have handled were very light and seemed identical to any 1 1/2 frame 12 gauge. I have never seen or heard of a 3" Parker made in the late era with a #2 or #3 frame, although they may exist.

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

Bill:

Weight is a consideration, but I will plead guilty to a certain bias toward Parker Brothers, AH Fox, and LC Smith double guns.
I have 1886 Winchesters and pre-war Model 70s. But, I probably will never own a Model 21.
But you have a point; those who hunt grouse and pintails as speedy birds have never seen an Eastern old gobbler come out of a full strut to beat American Pharoah in 50 yards.

[Researcher]

Does anyone actually have an unmolested Parker Bros. 12-gauge, gun chambered for 3-inch shells, from the period 1923 to 1933 that letters as such?