16 Gauge Chambering Question

[Alfred Houde]

In 1903, why would a 16 gauge be special ordered to be chambered for 2 7/8?

I ask because I am not very familiar with this chamber/shell length.

Thanks in advance for any historical insight.

[Dean Romig]

The standard chamber length of that era was 2 1/2" and a 2 7/8" chamber was strictly to accomodate shells loaded with thicker over-powder fiber wads. The reasoning for the thicker wads was to better bridge the step from the shell mouth to the distal end of the forcing cone thereby preventing gas leakage forward into the shot column or back past the shell.






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[Bill Murphy]

Many guns chambered at 2 7/8" are intended for 3" shells, which were somewhat available in those years.

[Phil Cloninger]

I have a 16 ga., VH, 1903 that measured 2-3/4” chambers. A Research letter verified it was special ordered with 2-3/4” chambers. (Dean, you may remember, I showed it to you at the Southern to evaluate the case colors). I have wondered why it was ordered this way….Were the 2-3/4 shells just becoming popular at the time (assuming most were 2-1/2”) or was there some other reason to order it that way..? Was the buyer just looking ahead? Thanks!

[Dean Romig]

Yes I remember it Phil.

A Parker could be ordered with any chamber length that shells were being produced in. Shells had become more standardized in more lengths.

Dave Noreen (Researcher) has all the data showing when the different shell lengths began being produced for retail.





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[Researcher]

The "standard" 16-gauge paper shell from the 1890s into the 1930s was 2 9/16-inch. Our ammunition companies offered 2 9/16-inch 16-gauge shells into the early 1960s.

My canned
16-Gauge History lesson --

From the late 1890s until after WW-I, the heaviest 16-gauge loads our North American ammunition companies offered were 2 3/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 22 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing 1 ounce of shot. Those loads could be had in the "standard" 2 9/16-inch case or any of the longer 2 3/4, 2 7/8 or 3-inch cases. In late 1922 or early 1923, Western Cartridge Co. added the 16-gauge to their progressive burning powder, high velocity loads called Super-X, but unlike the 1 1/4 ounce 12-gauge and 1 ounce 20-gauge Super-X loads which were put up in Western's 2 ¾-inch FIELD shells, the 1 1/8 ounce 16-gauge Super-X load was put up in their 2 9/16-inch FIELD shell. When the Lubaloy shot Super-X loads were introduced in July 1929, they were put up in Western's high brass RECORD shell, but the 16-gauge still in a 2 9/16-inch length case. The other ammunition companies followed suit, Peters' High Velocity and Remington's Nitro Express 16-gauge loads were put up in 2 9/16 cases.

The 2 ¾-inch 16-gauge shell really began to get some traction when Remington Arms Co., Inc. introduced their Model 11 and "Sportsman" autoloaders in 16-gauge in 1931, chambered for 2 ¾-inch shells. While Remington's regular Nitro Express 16-gauge progressive burning powder load was put up in a 2 9/16-inch hull with a load of 3 drams equiv. pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot, for their new 16-gauge autoloaders they introduced the slightly faster Auto-Express with a 3 1/4 drams equiv. charge pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot --



I'm thin on Winchester ammo catalogues, but for sure by 1934, they were offering a similar 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge load.

The 2 ¾-inch Magnum shells with 1 1/2 ounce in 12-gauge, 1 1/4 ounce in 16-gauge and 1 1/8 ounce in 20-gauge first appear in the December 15, 1954, ammo catalogues of all of the big four.

Western Cartridge Co. added a 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge to their Super-X offerings for 1938. From 1938 through 1942 they called this 16-gauge 2 ¾-inch Super-X shell "Magnum", even though it was still a 1 1/8-ounce payload. By Western Cartridge Co.'s March 7, 1946, catalogue the term "Magnum" was gone from this 2 ¾-inch 16-gauge Super-X shell. In Western's January 2, 1947, catalogue, the 2 9/16-inch 16-gauge Super-X shell was gone from both the chilled shot and the Lubaloy offerings, and their only 2 9/16-inch shells being offered were Xpert. This may have been an oversight, as the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell with chilled shot is back in Western Cartridge Co.'s April 8, 1948, catalogue and price list, and the 2 9/16-inch 16-gauge Super-X loads remained until their last appearance on Western Cartridge Co.'s January 2, 1962, catalogue and price lists, where it is "available until stocks depleted." By Western Cartridge Co.’s January 2, 1963, catalogue and price lists the new Mark 5 was introduced and all the 16-gauge Super-X offerings are 2 ¾-inch. By the January 2, 1964, Western Cartridge Co. catalogue and price list the 16-gauge 2 9/16-inch Xpert shell is gone as well.

[Researcher]

In theory with Parker Bros. policy of holding chambers 1/8-inch shorter than the intended shell, the "standard" 16-gauge chamber would be 2 7/16-inch for the 2 9/16-inch shell. I suspect a lot of the 2 7/16-inch chambers get measured as 2 1/2-inch. A gun for the 2 3/4-inch shell would have 2 5/8-inch chambers, for 2 7/8-inch shells a 2 3/4-inch chamber and for 3-inch shells 2 7/8-inch chambers.

When A.W. DuBray made his swing through the southeast in late 1900 his articles to the sporting press told of his using a Parker Bros. 16-gauge and 2 7/8-inch shells. The next year he writes of using a 20-gauge and 3-inch shells.

[Alfred Greeson]

I have a 20 gauge VHE from 1917 with 3 inch chambers and 26 inch barrels and I have often wondered if the 3 inch chambers are as ordered. Any ideas as the possibility of the 3 inch chambers being original. The barrels measure cyl and full.

[Bill Murphy]

Only a PGCA letter will tell you if your 3" chambers are original. 1917 was the heyday of 3" 20 gauge Parkers. I have owned two 3" 20 gauge Parkers from that era.

[Randy Roberts]

Like Bill said, "ONLY" a PGCA letter will confirm the chambers. Anything else is pure speculation and there's plenty that to go around when it comes to the originality or otherwise when it comes to chamber lengths IMO. Order a letter and good luck