12 gauge 3" shell introduction.

[Brian H]

I was wondering if anyone can tell me when LC and Parker started producing 3 inch chambers in 12 gauge guns? I know LC had the waterfowl configuration from 1924, did they produce them sooner? Was it as simple as a special order and if so would it be noted on the gun or barrel flat? Another question is when did 3" 12 gauge shell 1st come on the market?

Thanks in advance.

[10 bore]

Originally Posted by brianedward

I was wondering if anyone can tell me when LC and Parker started producing 3 inch chambers in 12 gauge guns? I know LC had the waterfowl configuration from 1924, did they produce them sooner? Was it as simple as a special order and if so would it be noted on the gun or barrel flat? Another question is when did 3" 12 gauge shell 1st come on the market?

Thanks in advance.

I have a 12 ga. VHE 3 frame made in 1906 that was ordered with 3 inch chambers, scott

[Drew Hause]

1890s Live Bird shooters routinely used long shells (with appropriate chambers) for additional wadding

DuPont Trophy Oct 24 & 25 1895
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL2606012.pdf
Capt. John L. Brewer was using a Greener gun of high grade. His shells were the U. M. C. Trap, 3 1/4 inches long, 4 drams of DuPont powder by measure, weighing 36 1/2 grains; one trap wad, two pink felts, 1/4 inch 11-gauge wad and one ordinary 12-gauge pink edge wad over the powder and 1 1/4 ounces of No. 7 chilled shot; the shell had a very hard square crimp.

The ‘machine loaded’ shells and components available in the 1895 Montgomery Ward & Co. catalog
http://books.google.com/books?id=zWe...page&q&f=false
12g Winchester “Leader” and “Blue Rival” NPEs are offered in 3-inch length. UMC 12g Green “Trap” NPEs are offered in 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

In 1922, Western Cartridge Co. introduced the 'Super-X' 12 gauge 3 inch shell with 1 3/8 ounces of shot, and the 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 ounce 3 3/4 dram equiv. load. Peters Cartridge Company's 'High Velocity' and Remington's Kleanbore 'Nitro Express Extra Long Range' loads soon followed.

Interestingly, one Smith Long Range was produced in 1921 and an Eagle grade Long Range in 1922. Advertising started in earnest in 1923, the same year the Super Fox was introduced. Not all Smith Long Range guns had 3" chambers.

'Long Range' 3" guns were nothing new however. 1914 G.E. Lewis ad

[charlie cleveland]

i really like these old ad s..thanks charlie

[J. A. EARLY]

Effective range 80 to 100 yards! WOW!

Guess yards were shorter back then.

[wayne goerres]

Can you emagine the turn around time if you sent your gun frome NY to Birmingham for repair in the late 1800s.

[Researcher]

Paper Shotshell Lengths

In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of paper shotshell lengths is in 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths, 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, while 16-gauge is just 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge just 2 1/2 inch. In the September 1896 catalogue they offer 12-gauge paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3-inch. All brass 10- and 12-gauge NPEs were offered up to 3 1/4 inch length. By the April 1899 UMC Catalogue things are really taking off and they've added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8 inch lengths to both 16- and 20-gauge offerings, and the 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge length in their "Trap" shell. By the May 1900 UMC catalogue the 3-inch 16- and 20-gauge length is being offered in their salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and their green colored "Trap" shell.

That pretty much covers paper shotshell lengths and when they appeared. So, by 1900 we had paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

From the 1890s into the early 1920s, these longer shotshells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shell, just more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon shooters believed to be an advantage. The maximum smokeless powder loads offered in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shell and the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell were a bit lighter than those offered in 2 3/4 inch and longer shells.

Drew,

Actually the 12-gauge Western Cartridge Co. Super-X load of 1 3/8 ounce of shot in their 3-inch RECORD shell wasn't released to the public until 1924 or 5.



The 1 1/4 ounce 12-gauge and 1 ounce 20-gauge Super-X loads in the 2 3/4 inch FIELD shell were released to the public in 1922 and the 1 1/8 ounce 16-gauge Super-X load in a 2 9/16 inch FIELD shell was introduced in late 1922 or early 23.

Dave

[Drew Hause]

Thanks Dave.

Jerry: if we only had a Woolwich

[wayne goerres]

150 yards. I want one. come to think of it make mine a double. No pun intended.

[charlie cleveland]

wayne they can put my name on a order for one of these guns too..boy what a turkey gun this is gonna be... charlie