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Visit Drew Hause's homepage! | |
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#23 | ||||||
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Thank You Drew,Very interesting reading. My article was sent off to Dean today for publishing in the next Parker Pages.
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"Much care is bestowed to make it what the Sportsman needs-a good gun"-Charles Parker |
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave Suponski For Your Post: |
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#24 | ||||||
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This goes along with the topic of this thread as well as another article in the Parker Pages a few issues ago about barrel steels in Parker barrels.
I just came into this set of 2 frame 12g barrels that are NOS, unchambered and 32" in length. No serial number length. They have bottom ribs, loop, spacers and keels in place, but no top rib installed yet. The barrel flat has the blank circle on it as discussed in that PP article. Letter was stamped in on e the grade of gun was determined. image.jpg These barrels are going to go on a check-hook lifter frame I have to upgrade into an A or AA grade.
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B. Dudley |
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Brian Dudley For Your Post: |
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#25 | ||||||
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Dean was kind enough to send me the Summer Parker Pages with Dave's Composition Analysis study. It is probably important to date the barrels as composition very likely changed following the advancements during and after WWI. It can be said with some degree of confidence that at least turn-of-the-century Hunter Arms rough forged fluid steel tubes were from a different Belgian source.
Any misunderstanding as to the Belgian source of pre-WWI tubes should be resolved by the following: Hearings, Vol. 14, United States 60th Congress 2nd Session, November, 1908. We further request that shotguns barrels in single tubes forged rough bored…be continued on the free list as at present, because their manufacture or production can not be economically undertaken in this country. Hunters Arms co., Fulton, N.Y., Ithaca Gun Co., Ithaca N.Y., Parker Bros., Meriden, Conn., Lefever Arms Co., Syracuse, N.Y., J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co., Chicopee Falls, Mass., N.R. Davis & Son, Assonet, Mass., Baker Gun & Forging Co., Batavia, N.Y. A single 1898 L.C. Smith Armour Steel tube was evaluated by optical emission spectroscopy (OES): Carbon content 0.47 weight percent is comparable to AISI 1045 Plain Carbon Steel, but with slightly higher sulfur (.075) and phosphorus (.112) content similar to AISI 1211 rephosphorized and resulfurized steel. For comparison, a Russian source reported Krupp Fluss Stahl as having: 0.45% Carbon Up to 0.035% Phosphorus Up to 0.035% Sulphur Published tensile strength for 1045 is 80,000 – 90,000 psi. Published tensile strength for 1018 Low Carbon (Mild) Steel is 64,000 psi. Measured tensile strength of this Armour sample was 101,000 psi. Anxious to see Eldon's tensile strength results of the samples in the future. I'm still hoping to evaluate samples of the other Hunter Arms named steels, and also the Armory Steel used by Meriden Fire Arms and Crescent, and will report back.
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http://sites.google.com/a/damascuskn...e.com/www/home Last edited by Drew Hause; 06-28-2014 at 07:44 PM.. |
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#26 | ||||||
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I have only shot my GH damascus gun a few times and with RST shells. Since it is F&F I have not found too many reasons to shoot it. I shoot a Parker SBT at trap, it has a Titanic barrel. My other damascus gun is a 1900 L.C. Smith O grade. It's bored IC and Mod. I've shot it at skeet with RST shells and regular Win, and RIO trap loads.
My two damascus guns have very nice barrels. The bore of the Elsie is a bit rough, and the Parker GH bore is like new. I think it has been honed. Think about it. How many damascus guns have you heard about letting go lately? How about none. We do, from time to time hear about shotgun barrels exploding, but it is usually modern liquid steel barrels who blew do to an obstruction. Moral of the story? I'm going to shoot my Parker and Elsie damascus barreled guns with confidence. I don't think I'll put Mag or high base shells in them. I have other old guns that'll handle higher power loads. A Fox Sterlingworth for one...Also an ancient Browing Auto 5. |
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#27 | ||||||
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Still hoping to accumulate more pre-WWI fluid steel samples for tensile strength testing and composition analysis.
More information: The Sampling and Chemical Analysis of Iron and Steel, 1915 By Oswald Bauer, Eugen Deiss, William Thomas Hall http://books.google.com/books?id=03w6AAAAMAAJ&dq p. 96, 103 Basic Bessemer steel Carbon 0.07 - 0.09% Manganese 0.40 – 0.48% Phosphorus 0.05 – 0.08% Sulfur 0.05 - .07% Remington “Decarbonized Steel” and Parker “Plain Steel” were Bessemer process steel, as was Winchester Standard Ordnance “Rolled Steel” and Marlin “Special Rolled Steel”. A 1925 Union Hardware & Metal Co., Los Angeles listing for the Crescent Empire No. 60 states “Decarbonized Steel” barrels. Crescent barrels were labeled "Armory Steel". Walt Snyder graciously shared a 1919 Ithaca Gun Co. letter from A.P. Curtis, General Manager requested tensile strength testing on a section “cut from a barrel made in Belgium” to be performed by E.J. Stormer of Racine, Wisconsin. The letter did not indicate if the barrels were “Smokeless Powder Steel” used on the Field grade, also commonly found with the ‘LLH’ mark of Laurent Lochet-Habran, “Fluid Steel” or “Nitro Steel” used on the No. 1 and No. 1 1/2, Cockerill Steel used on the No. 1 Special, or “Best Fluid Steel” and Krupp on higher grades. Tensile strength was reported to be “about 70,000” psi. Carbon .32% Manganese .78% Phosphorus .018% Sulphur .033% No chromium nor nickel Winchester Nickel Steel from Bethlehem Steel Co. Jan. 1900 http://books.google.com/books?id=Yzh...J&pg=PA181&lpg Carbon .50% Phosphorous .026% Manganese .77% Sulphur .037% Nickel 4.0% Tensile Strength 106,900 psi Nickel Steel in Halcomb Steel Co. “Catalogue and Hints on Steel”, 1913 Carbon .20% = tensile strength 82,000 psi .30% = tensile strength 93,500 psi .40% = tensile strength 94,000 psi Manganese .50-.80% Phosphorous and Sulfur – not over .04% Nickel 3.25 – 3.75% Modern AISI 4140 Chrome Moly Steel Carbon .38 - .43% Phosphorous .035% Manganese .75 – 1.0% Sulphur .04% Chromium .80 – 1.10% Molybdenum .15 - .25% Modern AISI 1018 Carbon .14 - .20% Phosphorous Below .04% Manganese .60 – .90% Sulphur Below .05% DAVE: with your permission I could add your 4 barrel results to the thread
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#28 | ||||||
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Go right ahead Doc.
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"Much care is bestowed to make it what the Sportsman needs-a good gun"-Charles Parker |
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#29 | ||||||
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Thank you Dave.
Sample of Parker barrels analyzed by Optical Emission Spectroscopy (OES) and published in the Summer 2014 Parker Pages by Dave Suponski Titanic Steel (likely pre-WWI) Carbon .32% Manganese .70% Phosphorus .033% Sulphur .077% Nickel .078% Chromium .031% Molybdenum .003% Trojan Steel (likely pre-WWI) Carbon .35% Manganese .84% Phosphorus .03% Sulphur .025% Nickel .04% Chromium .02% Molybdenum .004% Vulcan Steel Carbon .27% Manganese .68% Phosphorus .062% Sulphur .052% Nickel .01% Chromium .008% Molybdenum .002% Parker Steel (1926) Carbon .09% Manganese .83% Phosphorus .094% Sulphur .074% Nickel .007% Chromium .014% Molybdenum .003%
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#30 | ||||||
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Tried to post a side by side comparison of all the steel samples for which I have results, but the format doesn't work. I have it as a Word Doc and would be happy to send by an e-mail attachment if someone would like it
drewhausemd@yahoo.com 1905 Krupp Chrome Nickel Steel Brand "D" 0.5% Carbon 3.26% Chromium 0.16% Manganese 1.26% Nickel 0.04% Phosphorus 0.11% Silicon 0.03% Sulphur Krupp Fluss Stahl : 0.45% Carbon 0.035% (up to) Phosphorus 0.70% Manganese 0.25% Silicon 0.035% (up to) Sulphur Krupp Special (Spezial-Gewehr-Lauf-Stahl) patented 1896: 0.61% Carbon 0.04% Phosphorous 0.65% Manganese 0.04% Sulphur
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http://sites.google.com/a/damascuskn...e.com/www/home Last edited by Drew Hause; 11-10-2014 at 06:37 PM.. |
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