Very hard to believe. Could it be true?

[Old and Reliable]

Very interesting indeed. I had read that the F grade 12 Fox presented to Teddy Roosevelt was ordered w/o ejectors, as that was his preference. I also read that he sent a check in payment, and it was returned uncashed by the Fox sales manager-

This raises another ?- Did Nash order and pay for his first "Bo-Whoop", or was it a gift to a famous sportsman from the Fox Gun Co.?? The second Becker Super Fox was ordered by some of Nash's friends in an effort to replace the first gun-

I went to GBE's book "The Best of Nash Buckingham" (as if there could be anything second rate about this Gentleman-Sportsman from a by-gone era)- page 151- Chapter entitled Mr. Buck's Guns--quote: Nash's favorite 3 inch load for the gun (Bo-Whoop) was "an ounce and three eights of 4's coppered, ahead of four drams of powder"--

I have shot a similar load, albiet in a plastic hull and with plastic wadding- before steel and non-toxic became the law of the land, I used the Federal Premium copper plated lead shot loads in most all of my 12 gauge guns- both 2 & 3/4" and 3" length-for my three primary game birds hunted: Ring-necked pheasants, Green-head Mallards and Canada geese- Devastating indeed.

I had at one time a HE 12- it had been 'restocked" apparently by a group of ruptured Chinese gunsmiths out on a hot wine drunk- it weighed almost 11 lbs. with 32" barrels, had the 3" chamber mark and the "Not Guaranteed" stamping- but I could not swear that Mr. Becker was involved in its manufacture. The weight came from the added spacer and pad with a lead plug in the butt- (similar to my 3" Mag M12) and a "beavertail forearm" that was, no doubt, copied from a deceased beaver- UGLY- but the price was right, the splinter forearm was included and a leather case- I couldn't handle such a heavy gun today--but mechanically it was a gem- solid lock up, ejectors perfectly timed, sweet triggers and I dropped a sinful load of Canadas with it--never shot it with steel loads!

Also, I went to foto section of the book between pages 20 and 23- I believe the dog "Chubby" pictured with Nash is a Cocker Spaniel, albiet a good sized one. In years past we had Cockers for house dogs, I doubt there is a more of a "One_Man" breed than a Cocker- "Murphy" followed me around like I had steak bones in my pockets- he was an English Cocker, black and white, and looked like the "smaller brother" to our neighbor's black and white Springer "Clint"!!

I know this is about the Bo-Whoopie question, but another reason I revere both Nash Buckingham and Gene Hill was their love and kind treatment towards dogs. In the GBE "Letters To John Bailey" is detailed a gun brokered deal that "went South" against Nash, and he wrote the brokeree "Next time, you get yourself another boy" Said a lot to me about his integrity!!

[John Truitt]

If this gun truely turns out to be Bo Whoop, is this the last big mysterious american side by side? The third invicible was found, now the czar gun, and now possibly bo whoop. Are all of the legendary american side by sides now acounted for?

[Dean Romig]

John - Pardon the pun, but 'not by a long shot" have the legendary American SXS's been accounted for. Sure, maybe those owned by famous notables are thinning down but there are guns out there that will become legendary in and of themselves. Just today I was discussing with a couple of PGCA Members the (heretofore) rumored pair of looong barreled high-grade Parker .410s that went to the West Coast immediately before we became involved in WWII . . . rumor at this juncture but let's wait and see what happens. We may never hear more of them - they may become swept away from any possible knowledge by the likes of us or they may become public much like the Invincibles . . . time will tell. As for myself - I certainly won't be a player

[Old and Reliable]

Add to this "sudden emergence" of the original "Bo Whoop" super Fox 12 made for Nash Buckingham possibly some of the fabled $1000 grade Lefevers, the handful of Parkers in 24 gauge (reportedly made for UMC)--I can't say with any accuracy here, and as I am not going to be a "player" at the James Julia auction which this gun goes "under the hammer" I can only guess-

I think Nash's gun may well have been damaged- go back to 1948- and without knowing how old the car with the fenders was- or its make-just that it wasn't Nash's as he didn't own a car or drive, so I have read- and factoring in the WW11 non-production of passenger cars (to save gas, rubber, steel, etc) also possible it may have been a pre-War car-- fenders and running boards, December terrain (I don't know the area of Clarendon AK- or where the section 16 club was back then-) BUT- the gun, whether cased or uncased, and from the GBE report I believe it was cased- may well have slipped- perhaps mud, snow, the driver "gunned it" to get traction- possibly the barrels were damaged by the rear wheel, maybe also the stock was broken at the wrist- all speculation--

Another thought- and yes- apples to oranges BUT- were there any "counterfeited" A-1 Specials in 12 gauge with 32" barrels that might have been offered for sale as the "Czar's Parker" before Julia's sold the authenticated one to Jack Puglisi a few years ago??

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Francis Morin

Another thought- and yes- apples to oranges BUT- were there any "counterfeited" A-1 Specials in 12 gauge with 32" barrels that might have been offered for sale as the "Czar's Parker" before Julia's sold the authenticated one to Jack Puglisi a few years ago??

Oh yeah! There certainly was . . . Read TPS pg. 666 with photos on pg. 662, 663 and 665

. . . with a big lawsuit to boot.

[Old and Reliable]

Perhaps I can add another "log to the existing fire" on the possible authenticity of the HE Fox the Julia auction house will be offering. Page 152 of the GBE book "The Best of NB"- Quote: On December 2, Nash wrote John Bailey-- "Well, I lost the big gun yesterday-terrible blow. ******** My name on case and also in left barrel of gun.. In Clarendon ***** . It's fully insured ***. This re-read, plus the fact that I have almost memorized this entire book, brings up these options: (1) The last one first here- the part about fully insured. Any way of knowing if Nash received an insurance settlement for the loss of his prized AH Fox gun? If so, then I believe that fact would negate any claim his heirs might have to a later sale of that historic Fox gun.

And now (2)- GBE made a point many times about TNB's writing with the battered old typewriter, and the errors that his editors may have proofed and corrected- Point being, Nash wrote "and also IN left barrel of gun" and if he had meant to say ON left barrel of gun, then the enscription of the gun shown in this thread is wrong, as his name is stamped on the right barrel. Also, page 154- the two letters from Mr. Becker circa 1950 show his name as BURT.BECKER- with NO SPACING as more commonly found BURT BECKER and possible sans the period after the T- would he not, as we are all somewhat creatures of habit, have then stamped his name in the same manner on the gun(s) he made that belonged to TNB???

[Bill Murphy]

Francis, I think it's about time you bought a TPS and memorized it. I think Dan Cote has slightly imperfect full sets for about $225. I will sell you one of my perfect sets for about $275. plus shipping. You are now "one of us" so you have to start spending like "one of us".

[Richard Flanders]

Go Francis! I noticed that in/on detail also. Had to be a typo. As I like to say, "the difference between mediocrity and excellence in nearly every aspect of life is little more than the attention to detail"....

[Old and Reliable]

What is the saying about bush pilots? Old ones, Bold ones, but few "Old and Bold"--I also am curious as I just registered on James Julia's website and tried to find either AH Fox or Burt becker shotguns listed for the coming March 2010 auction-fest. NADA, yet PGCA member Jim Kucaba has a foto in his post from Jul;ia's of the 'gun in??" here- very interesting??

[John Truitt]

Mr. Morin,
Shes there. Just go to julias and click on highlighted gusn for the March auction. Keep scrolling down and it will show up.