Parker Pigeon Gun

[Drew Hause]

The Riverton Handicap March 8, 1895
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL2425015.pdf

It may be interesting to some to note the guns and loads used, and we give it below. It was a lamentable fact that of the 15 guns used only one American make was represented. This was a special pigeon gun of the Parker Brothers' manufacture, and was a beautiful weapon in every way, and was owned by Mr. Post, whose score of 93 on a hard lot of birds did not show that the shooting power was lacking.
All the guns were 12 gauge, and it was noticeable that not a full pistol-grip stock was among the number, and most of them were the straight-grip "pigeon gun" model, nine being of this description, and six of the half-grip style. All were of the hammerless pattern excepting two; Mr. Welch and Mr. Robbing using hammerguns.

Following is the make of guns and loads used:
Capt. A.W. Money - Greener, 7 1/2 pounds.
George Work - Purdy, 7 1/2 pounds.
Post - Parker pigeon gun, 7 11-16 pounds.
Jim Jones - Scott, 7 3-16 pounds.
John B. Ellison - Scott, 7 1/4 pounds.
Fred Moore - Purdey, 7 7-16 pounds.
Leonard - Westly Richards, 7 1/2 pounds.
Mott - Crown grade Greener, 7 2-16 pounds.
J.S. Robbins - Greener hammer gun, 7 1/2 pounds.
R. Welch - Purdey hammer gun, 7 1/2 pounds
Downing - Scott, 7 6-16 pounds.
J.K. Palmer – Francotte, 7 1/2 pounds.
Edwards - Scott Premier, 7 pounds.
J. Wolstencroft - Greener, 6 15-16 pounds.
Eckert - Scott Premier, 7 1/4 pounds.

Shells were 45 - 48 grains / 3 1/4 - 3 1/2 drams smokeless powder and 1 1/4 oz.
Capt. Money (2nd in the 1894 GAH) and George Work (3rd in the 1893 GAH) tied at 94 killed.

I've seen numerous references in Sporting Life to a Parker Pigeon Gun. Harvey McMurchy convinced the Hunter Bros. to introduce a new grade called the "Pigeon Gun" in 1893, which was basically a Quality No. 3 with special engraving. What features made a Parker a "Pigeon Gun"; special engraving, etc.? When was a "Pigeon Gun" first offered?
"Tuck" Tucker's AAH (if I remember correctly) is no longer on the Ivory Beads site BTW.

[Phil C]

I am just curious there has been much debate over low pressure loads in these old guns. I realize these guys were shooting for money and wanted to have the best loads avalible as one bird makes a differnce. That said I would be curious how the load mentioned above, (Shells were 45 - 48 grains / 3 1/4 - 3 1/2 drams smokeless powder and 1 1/4 oz) compares to modern loads.
Seems these loads were pretty stout. Seems as if they were built to withstand some higher pressures.

[Ed Blake]

They were built to withstand the pressures, as mentioned here in prior threads and in TPS. I keep my handloads at <7,000 psi with 7/8 oz. shot, but also occasionally shoot what factory loads I have at hand. The greatest worry I have is the wood.

[Drew Hause]

Phil: the pressures were very likely within modern SAAMI standards, but the recoil was no doubt stout. More here http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfg2hmx7_333g89dwqg8

[Bruce Day]

Here we go again. SAAMI load pressure are 11500 for a 12ga. The gun was designed and constructed to take it, whether damascus or fluid steel. That is a stout load. One can buy 12ga shells that are over that, these so called magnum , heavy pheasant, heavy duck, etc.

A person may choose to limit the load and pressure through the gun based on a variety of factors, eg, he doesn't think his old metal is up to it, he thinks his stock won't take it, he thinks his shoulder won't take it, he prefers light loads ,etc.

I personally will sometimes shoot max loads for late season, long hard shots. The rest of the time I load down or buy factory shells that are reduced from SAAMI max. A knowledgable shotgunner recognizes that recoil and chamber pressure are different but related and through manipulation of load components, he can adjust either or both.

[Drew Hause]

1896 GAH at Live Birds
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL2702020.pdf
"O. R. Dickey, of Boston. Mass., winner used a very handsome Parker Bros, hammerless gun, of the pigeon model, and his load consisted of 50 grains, or about 3 1/2 drams by measure, of American "E. C." powder, 1 trap wad, one 3/8 inch pink felt, one 1/4-inch pink edge, and 1 1/8 ounce of No. 7 chilled shot in the United States Cartridge Co.'s "Rapid" shells, 2 3/4 inches in length."

WHAT "pigeon model" WOULD THAT BE??

[Bruce Day]

AAH, Drew. See TPS.

[Drew Hause]

Thanks Bruce, but what made Dickey's AAH a "pigeon model" please? And were all "pigeon models" AAHs? And when were the AAH "pigeon models" introduced? Before or after the Smith Pigeon Gun, which claimed to be "The only American Pigeon Gun made" in 1894?

[Drew Hause]

"When were the AAH "pigeon models" introduced? Before or after the Smith Pigeon Gun, which claimed to be "The only American Pigeon Gun made" in 1894?"

No one knows??

Dave may correct me, but the Baker Krupp Trap was first offered in 1897 with 30" barrels, straight grip, and engraved pigeons.

1905 catalog



Not sure when the Ithaca No. 2 Krupp Pigeon was introduced.

[Drew Hause]

April 6, 1895 Sporting Life
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL2502014.pdf

Parker Bros., of Meridan, Conn., are producing a Special high grade pigeon gun which is certainly equal to an imported gun in every way, and best of all, the shooting quality is not lacking.