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Sould it be illegal to hunt with 8 gauge?
Unread 08-24-2010, 01:37 PM   #1
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Default Sould it be illegal to hunt with 8 gauge?

I would like to hunt with a 8 ga just for the fun of it. Of course, they were outlawed long ago. Maybe for good reason then since waterfowl had been devastated by big bore guns, ie 8 ga, punt guns, etc. That is not true today. What is the difference if I shoot 6 ducks with a modern 10 ga or an old 8 ga? If a modern 10 ga is 3 1/2" and an old 8 ga is 3 1/4" can there be that much difference in the amount of shot? I would think a modern 10 ga would do more damage. Wouldn't it shoot further and hit harder? Has anybody ever studied this?

I have read others say it would be unethical to use a 8 ga. How? 6 ducks is 6 ducks, isn't it? Is it unethical just because some government employee has decided so? I think not. I wonder if anybody organization has ever tried to get these rules changed? Wouldn't be easy since you'd have to convince the feds and then state governments.

To me, this is all government nonsense. Why a 10 ga but not a 8ga? Why 6 ducks and not 7? I still haven't figured out how 3 oz of shampoo is safe to fly with but not 5 oz? Am I crazy?
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Unread 08-24-2010, 02:14 PM   #2
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Guns larger than 10ga were outlawed by the Lacey Act in 1918. Waterfowl populations were on the decline, guns and ammunition had improved greatly (repeaters, nitro powder, choke, fluid steel etc) from the days of muzzle-loading cylinder bores and there was an attempt to institute and regain "fair chase". Remember not only was bore size restricted repeaters were limited to 3 shots as well by this law.

The 10 gauge 3 1/2" magnum had yet to be invented and in hindsight when it was invented I am surprised the law was not amended to limit shell length. Somewhere earlier in the 2000's the Lacey Act was amended limiting shell length to 3 1/2", this was done after the 12ga 3 1/2" came out and rumors began circulating about a "super magnum 10ga" could be developed that was 4" and longer. Steel shot made longer shells ballistically feasible.

I have never shot an 8ga, but I have shot 10ga's. They are vastly more capable than a 12ga and far more effective even when shooting the same shot weight. The bigger bore makes a difference. I have no doubt a good 8ga would be another leap forward in capability from a 10 and could really reach out and touch them. For that reason alone it will most likely remain banned. I just don't see a conservation minded organization like DU championing the return of guns bigger than 10ga.

I would say that for waterfowl hunting since it is federally regulated you don't have much of a chance to reverse a law that is 92 years old. You might have a chance to change state laws to allow it's use for Turkey hunting but again you will have a big job in front of you to do that.

Good luck.
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Unread 08-24-2010, 04:13 PM   #3
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Thanks, Pete.

What I can't understand is there is a limit and 6 ducks are 6 ducks regardless of what gun you use. Things have changed in 92 years. The antiquity of an error is no excuse for its perpetuity! There where no federal bag limits back in 1918. At the time there was a question as to whether the feds could constitutionally regulate the number of waterfowl taken within a state's borders so it was easier to regulate the gun size. That was the old days when the feds still thought the states actually were sovereign and had the right to there own to regulate themselves. In fact, there was even question whether a state could regulate what someone could kill on his own property. Back then Amercians actually had some freedoms.

I did read an article on 12 ga 3 1/2" vs 10 ga. 3 1/2". It claimed that the 12 ga put 90% of the shot on target that a 10 ga did. The point of the article was that you don't get that much more out of a 10 ga and there is less recoil with the 12 ga. Maybe that's why 10 ga's aren't as popular now that we have 12 ga 3 1/2". I haven't hunted ducks with a modern 10 ga. Don't really want to. 12 ga does just fine but it would be cool to use an old 8 ga blowing black powder all over the place.

Here's the plan: Only allow use of old 8 ga guns made before 1918. Keep the limit at 6 ducks. How could anyone argue that would be a problem?
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Unread 08-24-2010, 04:36 PM   #4
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Ray it's not just the limit of 6 ducks, it is the concept of "fair chase" by limiting the gunners effective range along with the number of shots in the gun. Having just started shooting a 2 7/8" 10 bore this year and learning just how effective it is at long range I would hazard a guess here that a properly configured 8ga could be an effective 90 yard gun.

PS. I don't believe a 12ga 3.5" recoils less than a 10ga 3.5". All the 10ga repeaters are heavy guns, the 12ga super mags in general are not. I also believe anyone who says a 12ga 3.5" will do anything a 10ga 3.5 will do is spoken by a person who is either selling the 12 or never patterned a 10.
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Unread 08-24-2010, 05:22 PM   #5
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I personally see no good reason why an 8 gauge would be outlawed.........just think of all these companie's claiming how they build rifle's that can shoot game at 1000 yrd's ,now sir that is unethical.....just think ,at that distance no matter what calibre choice there gonna be some hang time before impact......the targeted animal could make one step ,or could be stung by a bee or whatever the hell else and the shot could go from the vital's to the gut!!!! just try and close the distance on that poor bugger after a crammy shot.
With today's game law's there is no sensible reason why they(8 gauge gun's ) should be banned.
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Unread 08-24-2010, 06:27 PM   #6
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Pete, you might be right about 12 ga vs 10 ga. I don't hunt waterfoul with a 10 ga tho you may be changing my mind. 12 ga, 10 ga you still need to put the gun on target.

I respect your view, but it has nothing to do with fair chase. When I started turkey hunting years ago you'd be lucky to put 40 pellets in a pie plate at 40 yds. Now I can put 120 pellets at 60 yds due to advances in guns and ammo. Is it unfair? No, those rascals still out fox me! The fairness is in calling them in if you're so inclined. Where I come from you can turkey hunt with a rifle. What is fairer? Calling them in and shooting them with a 60 yard shotgun or sitting in a stand with a 300 yard rifle? They're not in a cage and there is a bag limit.

What's unfair is steel shot! All poor shots like me do is wound ducks! But that's a whole another story. I understand the problem with lead and I have become somewhat politically correct.

The argument that the range with a 8 ga is 90 yards is weak in light of the fact they are hard to hit at 40 yards. How much do you lead them at 90 yds? I probably couldn't even see them at that distance! Surely steel shot, if it could be shot from a 8 ga, would never, ever go 90 yards. I'm not sure lead would be effective at that range but I really have no idea.

It would be a interesting study to see what the real effect would be. My guess is not much in the real world sitting in a blind or up against a tree.

Chris, maybe you and I are starting a movement!
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Unread 08-24-2010, 06:47 PM   #7
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Default 8 gauge

I have some Field & Stream,Forest &Stream, Outdoor Life, etc from the 1890 - 1920 time frame. They contain many letters from individuals and sportsmen's organizations proposing the outlawing of individual calibers and a considerable body of opinion favoring the outlawing of all magazine guns for hunting
According to Charlie's Serialization the last 8 ga Parker was 174013; probably made in 1916.

Best, Austin
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Unread 08-24-2010, 07:37 PM   #8
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Good luck getting the law changed. Until then, well I'll leave it that I know that a lot a messy geese have been cleaned out from around private ponds with Parker 8ga's shooting lead.
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Unread 08-24-2010, 08:33 PM   #9
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Austin, you must not overlook why sportsmen of that time wanted to outlaw certain caliber. etc. Market hunters had about killed everything at that time. Duck, turkey, deer populations were very low. The exact opposite then we have today. Market duck hunters would hide in the weeds with a 8 ga, wait for ducks to land in the water and when a whole bunch got there, they'd be waylayed as they swam around. So sportsmen objected as they would today. There were no limits and it was felt that Congress could not set limits for constitutional reasons.

Those concerns are not valid today. We have so many regulations that is it almost impossible to hunt anything without committing some violation!!!! Congress no longer worries about the pesky constitution.

What difference would it make if turkey hunters used a 8 ga if rifles are permitted? I challenge anyone to come up the a rational basis to allow turkey hunting with a rifle but not a 8 ga. Besides, even if a few more turkeys were killed with an 8 ga, which really wouldn't happen, how many people would really go buy old 8 ga to shoot them with. Very few. It wouldn't change how many I shoot. The bag limit here is 2. I take 2 every year. What's the difference what I shoot them with. Two more dead turkeys won't hurt the population that has grown yearly for decades despite allowing them to be shot with rifles.

It is interesting how there are different views on the topic. It is something worth giving real study as the results may be surprising.
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Unread 08-24-2010, 11:11 PM   #10
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You can legally hunt waterfowl with an 8ga on the other side of the Atlantic.
IMHO it would be more ethical to use an 8ga than a 410 for waterfowl even if the 410 is legal. Just because it's legal doesn't make it right.
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