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Unread 09-10-2016, 09:31 AM   #11
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Gary Laudermilch
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Well said, Frank. Heck, you can kill a grouse, duck, or whatever with a 410 under some circumstances. How many cripples occur when the shooter thinks he missed cleanly. Quite a few. Far to many folks measure shell performance based on clay target performance. Clays and live birds are to entirely different animals. I examine every grouse I shoot for pellet performance and there is no substitute for using enough gun and large enough shot. Leave your light and slow loads on the clays field. Hunting is all about the welfare of the resource.
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Unread 09-10-2016, 09:58 AM   #12
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Kirk Mckinney
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I see what you are saying. But what do you consider enough shot and enough velocity?? I know that if I shoot 1 1/4 oz shot it won't make a bigger pattern to cover for those slightly off target shots. But what kind of velocity do you consider enough. I thought 1200 was enough for most hunting needs. As I am new to shotshell reloading I would like to hear what yalls thoughts are
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Unread 09-10-2016, 10:18 AM   #13
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1-1/4 ounce won't necessarily make a bigger pattern but it will make a denser one than 7/8 ounce, with more pellet strikes per bird at any given yardage. And pellet strikes and penetration are the name of the game. Now, compare those modern vintager-type low pressure loads for duck hunting with the common "High Brass" 12-gauge 1-1/4 ounce lead shot loads that I used when I was a kid, and still use today for heavier game when lead is allowed. They came in at about 1330 fps. And that period 12-gauge low brass field load with 1-1/8 ounce had about 1225 speed. Most duck hunters back then would load up with those high brass shells to cover any/all yardages, a no brainer. And old time small game hunters often had low and high brass shells in right and left barrels respectively. Nowadays I will think about those shot load and velocity parameters when choosing the gun and shells for whatever I'm hunting. And if I don't have a SxS that will handle such loads I'll relegate it to clays and choose another gun for hunting that will.


I know this will get some readers irritated but I just about get shivers whenever someone talks about how light shot charges will pattern way better and are just as good or even more effective than heavy ones, also about so-called square loads having some magic quality that makes them much superior to others in the same gauge but with a longer shot column. One last comment when comparing something like a 7/8 ounce load in 12-gauge to a 1-1/4 ounce one .... when the gun goes bang that extra 3/8 ounce has to go somewhere. Ha!
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Unread 09-10-2016, 12:56 PM   #14
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7/8oz bismuth loads in any gauge have no place in duck hunting in my opinion. 1 1/4 oz loads do not make up for poor shooting. Ducks are a resource that should not be wasted and we should respect the resource with adequate loads and off season shooting practice. I have shot many hundreds of ducks with bismuth and I consider 1 1/8oz bismuth loads at 1200fps the minimum for ducks over decoys. Later in the season 1 1/4oz bismuth at 1200fps is the minimum. There are plenty of adequate bismuth published loads.
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Unread 09-10-2016, 02:11 PM   #15
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Lol. I like the one about the extra 3/8 of a ounce going somewhere. Lol. Good one. To make it clear I hadn't loaded any bismuth hunting loads. I was just trying to see what y'all thought it would take. I bought 4 boxes of bismuth from RST. I just checked them. They are 1 oz at 1200 fps. I think I remember reading somewhere that when they proofed these old sterlingworth barrels that they did it with 1 1/4 oz loads. I think that's right. I just don't no what pressure I can safely get it up to. no one in their right mind want to see wildlife get away crippled or maimed. Anyone know what is a safe psi for my gun ???
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Unread 09-10-2016, 02:17 PM   #16
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Right outside my back door. They nest in shrubs in our neighborhood image.jpg
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Unread 09-10-2016, 02:57 PM   #17
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I just found data for longshot powder with 7200 psi @ 1350 fps. And that's with 1 1/4 oz bismuth. That should be ok on my old gun. What do y'all think. It's on hodgdon site. It's for a 2 3/4 in but I'm sure I could find a way to get it into a 2 1/2. Any comments.
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Unread 09-10-2016, 11:02 PM   #18
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Sherman Bell did a series of articles in Double Gun Journal called Finding Out For Myself. In one of these he shot cartridges longer than the chamber. i.e.: 2 3/4' shells in 2 1/2" chambers and continued on to shoot 3 1/2" shells out of 3" chambered guns. He even shot 3 1/2" shells out of a 2 3/4" chamber. The end result was that chamber pressures increased by a whopping 300 psi. He concluded that the pressure spike was negligible. I agree. I shoot 2 3/4" modern loads out of an 1881 Parker with Twist steel barrels that has 2 1/2" chambers without event and have done so for so long I no longer flinch at the thought of it. Your Fox is one of the good ones. Shoot the snot out of it with anything but steel shot.
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Unread 09-11-2016, 04:15 PM   #19
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Thanks guys for all the info. Looks like 1 1/4 oz is the way to go. I am curious as I have a bunch of fiber wads. Would it be ok to load bismuth with fiber wads. Does anyone know if it would damage the barrel with bismuth skidding down it . It would allow for more shot in a shell. Any thoughts anyone
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Unread 09-11-2016, 07:04 PM   #20
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Kirk you seem to like to play reloading roulette, good luck and I hope your insurance man is not a forum member.
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