American 20th Century Side by Sides

[Andy]

Savage? Or is that considered one that you own already (ie savage/fox...etc) I know they were middling guns but they were latter 20th century, right?

EDIT: Also the Browning SxS but then I re-read the original post about being made in America so just ignore me. I don't think the Browning or Savage were.

[Mike of the Mountain]

Jeff, don't forget Crescent Arms Co guns. I had some and shot them in .410, 28 and 20g. Fun to shoot and not expensive. Just ask Cold Spring, "Team Crescent Rules!!"

[Researcher]

There were barely 2000 Philadelphia Arms Co. FOX doubles. Baltimore Arms Co. guns have serial numbers from about 1000 to just over 7000. The serial numbers show just south of 20000 Tobins.

Some others to consider would be Forehand & Wadsworth --

1170 05.jpg

Forehand Arms Co. --

3361 05.jpg

Torkelson --

Torkelson 01.jpg

The little H & R hammer guns --

2384 01 Hammer Double 410-44.jpg

Hopkins & Allen --

3PinSideplate 1914 vintage.jpg

Hopkins & Allen.jpg

These Hopkins & Allen sideplated guns appear to have some of the features of the later Iver Johnson doubles --

Iver Johnson Hercules side.jpg

[Researcher]

Savage? Or is that considered one that you own already (ie savage/fox...etc)

Savage Arms Corp. actually very briefly offered a double, the Model 320 --

Model 320, January 2, 1937.jpeg

Introduced in their January 2, 1937, catalog along with their Model 220 hammerless single barrel and Model 420/430 over/under. The Model 320 was a trigger-plate locks style gun. Apparently Savage decided a better answer for a lower priced double was to take the internals of their J. Stevens Arms Co. No. 530. put them in a bit nicer profiled and black gun metal finished frame with a bit nicer stock and besmirch the Fox name by calling it the Fox Model B --

1939 Flyer introducing Model B.jpg

introduced by this insert in some of their 1939 A.H. Fox catalog.

[jeffery c]

Researcher, that is interesting! A lot of gun-wise people describe the Fox B as a fancy
Stevens 311. Seems like the 311 is a plain Fox B because it came first.

Thanks for your help everyone! Based on the idea of reasonable availability and production numbers, I've narrowed my plans for a want list to: Remington 1894, Iver Johnson, Tobin, Fox B/Stevens, Meridan, Lefever Nitro, and Winchester 24. The Hatfield, I'm keeping an eye out for, but were there any other later American doubles? The Crescent and hardware store guns, I'll set aside for now. Plus the really scarce low production guns made in the early 20th century. I think the Ruger Gold Label is not 20th century, but I'd probably make an exception for it and the Colt!

[WHO]

I still think the colt would be a must for your collection. Just my opinion.

[Researcher]

The history of the 311 is a long and winding road in the history of J. Stevens. Shortly before WW-I the J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. introduced a hammerless double in 12- and 16-gauge in their lower priced Riverside Arms Co. line built on the G.S. Lewis Patent No. 1,136,247 style action using coil spring driven strikers rather than internal hammers rotating about an axle. They called it the Riverside No. 315. After The Great War, J. Stevens Arms Co. continued the Riverside No. 315 and by 1923 they added a slightly fancier version called the J. Stevens No. 330. Adding 20-gauge in 1923 and the .410-bore version by 1925. In 1928, J. Stevens Arms Co. changed the name of their low priced line to Springfield Arms Co. In 1929, just in time for the Great Depression, they added a lower priced version of the No. 315 and called it the Springfield No. 311. While the Stevens No. 330 had a capped full pistol grip checkered walnut stock, the Springfield No. 315 had a checkered half-pistol grip walnut stock, and the new No. 311 had a plain walnut finished hardwood stock. In 1936, J. Stevens began phasing in a new style action with hammers that rotated abut an axle. Early ones marked 5000 and later 5100. The J. Stevens No. 330 became the No. 530 with the new action and the Springfield No. 315 became the No. 515. The Springfield No. 311 continued being made on the G.S. Lewis action up to WW-II. Throughout the years numerous "trade branded" versions of the G.S. Lewis action gun were also made. In 1940, J. Stevens Arms Co. introduced a version of their No. 530 with stock and forearm made from a plastic material they called Tenite and called it the No. 530-M. After WW-II Savage Arms Corp. consolidated their arms making operations at their J. Stevens factories at Chicopee Falls, Mass. while the factory at Utica went to making items for the post-war housing boom.

Washer & Dryer brass plate.jpg

In the 1947 Savage/Stevens/Fox/Springfield catalog the hammerless double with the Tenite stock and forearm that was the J. Stevens No. 530-M up through 1946, was called the Springfield No. 311. By the 1948 catalog it was the Stevens Model 311. By the 1951 catalog the Tenite stock was gone and the Stevens Model 311 got the plain walnut finished hardwood stock and became the gun most folks know.

[jeffery c]

Is it then fair to say the Stevens 5000, 5100, 520, 311, and Fox B all the same design? I have a vague memory of reading that millions of the 311/Fox B were made. Any idea about total numbers made? I wonder if the 311/Fox B was the top dog in production numbers of all side by sides? They were always sort of on my mind when I would read Gun Digests when I was a kid in the '70s. The USA doubles were down to Winchester 21s and the 311/Fox B by then. There were Hatfields for awhile too, then the Gold Label. Now, nothing, right?

I just remembered that I saw Ithaca Trap guns in a catalog that I sent away for in about 1978 or so. They were still being made, although they were a single shot.

[OH Osthaus]

[QUOTE=jefferyconnor;316967 Now, nothing, right?[/QUOTE]

I think Connecticut Shotgun would disagree with that

[Researcher]

Is it then fair to say the Stevens 5000, 5100, 520 (should be 530, the 520 was a John M. Browning designed pump gun), 311, and Fox B all the same design? I have a vague memory of reading that millions of the 311/Fox B were made. Any idea about total numbers made?

There were a number of changes made over the 49 years this basic design was produced, designated by letters A up to H. I wonder if Savage even knows how many were produced? Pre WW-II they were serial numbered. Then from the consolidation at Chicopee Falls in 1947 to the GCA 68 they weren't. There is also the matter of the J. Stevens records being destroyed in a fire, some say to cover up charges of war profiteering?!? So, who knows.