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Unread 01-21-2014, 12:26 PM   #21
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Greg, to begin, you DID state that the BHE grade 0000 frame .410 was unusual among 0000 frame .410s. That is not the case. Among factory finished 0000 frame .410s, the BHE was the catalog gun and the grade they are found in, with the exception of the gun being discussed with the D grade engraving. Kenny, you are beating a dead horse. It has been stated on this forum for years, and again stated by me in this thread, that most, if not all, 00 frame .410 barrels are marked 0000. Additionally, your statement about 0000 frame guns being identified by weight or any other method other than "looking at the frame" is a fallacy. The 0000 frame, for those who have seen one, is very obvious at first glance. There are no exposed breech balls, the hint of a breech ball being inletted into the width of the receiver. You continue to say that only one true 0000 frame .410 has been located. I have seen several, had several in my hands. I resent the fact that you are calling me a bit of a fibber about this. I would like to see Kevin McCormack post here, because he also has seen a few, and had them in his hands. Apparently your "Years of study" didn't show you that the frames are different in appearance and the "weight" is a red herring. Sure, the weight is different, but scales are scarce at Winter Vegas.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 12:49 PM   #22
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Greg, this is an answer to your last question. Of the 33 finished guns, there are 9 reported to have been "finished and factory engraved to grade". Of these, all known except the gun in question are or should be BHE grade. The remaining 24, working 0000 frame .410s, were white and unengraved. Most were engraved by Geoffroy Gournet after production ceased , with some rumored to be retained by the Skeuse family. For the information of Kenny Graft, I have seen several of the guns in process by Geoffroy, and have also seen a finished A-1 Special by Geoffroy, had it in my hands, and waved it around. I have also had in my hands, a prototype as Kenny refers to it. Kenny is incorrect in saying the 0000 .410 is "only a prototype". It is a production gun. The production figures are well known. The prototype is identical to production 0000 frame .410s as see it. I examined it in detail and have examined other 0000 frame .410s in detail, and saw no difference. I don't know the serial number of the prototype I examined.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:08 PM   #23
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Parker Reproductions Northeast Sales Manager, Ray Stone, visited here on August 31, 1988, to display and promote the Repro and the new .410 BHE. He brought a beautiful little prototype with him for examination and display. My friend, Mel Swerdloff, and I placed orders for identical .410 BHEs, his field choked, mine skeet choked. We had hours to inspect the new gun, but it only took me about five minutes to decide I needed one. Ray didn't know the price of the new gun and I didn't care. I still have a copy of the order.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:14 PM   #24
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Chaddic had one of the two know true 0000 frame guns. I did see pictures of it but not good ones, it only was 410 and 5lbs. About the other 33 guns you speak of, they are on 00 frames... end of story unless you can show pictures of the frame with no balls....I saw this or that but no pictures have ever shown up. Look back in the old threads, lots of speculation but never any real proof. Think about the 410 barrels, they are made to mate to 28ga. 00 frames. If the frame was little the barrels would hang out past the breach balls. It just can't work. oooo frame stand alone 410 never got past the one or two prototypes. Im real sure there is not 33 of them. Thanks all, SXS ohio
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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:21 PM   #25
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The BHE in four gauges were introduced by a memo to dealers in 1988 at a retail of $3900 plus. One hundred of each gauge were to be produced. By 1989, they were missing from Repro literature. The Gun List advertisement placed by Mike Weatherby, offering a BHE .410, was dated April 9, 1993, long after production ended. The assumption is that Paul Dorsa's gun, seen at Las Vegas, was purchased from that ad, or maybe another Weatherby offering earlier. The Weatherby asking price was $16,000.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:24 PM   #26
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Kenny, you are being very impolite to tell me that I have not seen what I have seen. I've been in this longer than you have and have seen the guns. I know about the Chaddick gun, and it is not, as you say, one of two known genuine 0000 frame .410s. Maybe you should post those pictures. Geoffroy and I measured the pin separation on 0000 frame guns to confirm that they are different from the 00 frame. They are. The barrels of a 0000 do not "hang out the sides", because they are smaller than the 0000 marked 00 frame barrels. Without consulting my notes, I seem to recall that the genuine 0000 frame has an identical pin separation with the original Parker Brothers 000 frame. Please do not persist on implying I am not telling the truth.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 02:21 PM   #27
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The 33 DHE .410s in the production chart are assumed to be, as you suggest, 00 frame dedicated .410 guns, not part of sets, very hard to find, because some probably got converted into sets. The 0000 frame BHEs, which the production chart lists as 9 built, are a completely different animal. However, the 9 BHEs are not the complete production of 0000 frame guns, as I stated in my earlier post.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 03:03 PM   #28
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Bill, how do you know which frame size the 9 .410 BHEs listed in the production chart were built on?

I have to think that the 33 DHE .410s listed in the production chart were extrapolated from the Sisley article---although the Sisley article did not mention what grade they were finished out in.

Where did I say "the BHE grade 0000 frame .410 was unusual among 0000 frame .410s." Or did you take what I said out of context? Unusual, to me, is something that is not usual. I have been at the Repro game since the mid 80s and I hoisted a grand total of just one 0000-frame gun. That, in my world, qualifies as something that is unusual or not usually seen.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 03:32 PM   #29
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On page one of this thread, in your paragraph you numbered "1.", is where I see that you stated that there "were few 0000 guns and even fewer B Grades". In fact, most were B grades. I can see where you meant that if there were one 0000 gun that was not a B Grade, your statement makes sense. I apologize for my misunderstanding your point.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 06:55 PM   #30
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Oh come on lets beat it some more....I'm glad I got a Fox FE 410
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