The Myth is strong

[Harry Reed]

Destry,
Your comment is correct. To my benefit, about 30 years ago, one of my favorite dealers had a beautiful double on his rack. I spotted it right away and admired the deep relief engraving, fine checkering, smoothness of the action and the handsome barrels. It also was very light. As I inspected the double the shop owner stated "your a good customer of mine and I want you to understand you must not fire this shotgun because of the laminate barrels. If you want to buy it I will let you have it for $300." It was so well made I had to take it home with me. I new nothing about old doubles at the time. The double is a Francotte. It does have wear on checkering, 20% colors, but overall it is in nice shape for its age. It also created my interest in Parkers and others. My father told me when I was young to stay away from damascas barrels.

[Mike Franzen]

I remember being at a gun show about 20 years and seeing a whole rack of high grade damascus guns. There were a couple Parkers probable C grades. We all admired them as beautiful wall hangers but couldn't justify the $200 - $300 price tags for something that could never be shot.

[chris dawe]

I have a similar story...twenty odd years ago ,my brother wanted a 10 gauge hammer gun for geese,saltwater birds etc I searched high and low to find one for him as a surprise gift....going through a local newspaper add one morning lo and behold was a 10 gauge hammer gun,I called the guy who was apparently the local gunsmith in the town he lived ....I drove the two hours to see the gun ,it looked great to me at the time ,he had painted the metal with some sort of proprietary finish (see bbq paint ) and he told me he had opened the chokes to shoot steel ammo,just as he had done with his Fathers gun which was the same model ...the gun was good and tight great bores ,good wood so to my uneducated eye perfect for the intended purpose ,I bought it and made my Brother very happy.

We shot lots of birds with that old gun ,Federal and Winchester steel BB ,3 1/2 inch shells, but man it kicked ,being a light weight ten gauge it would stumble you if your footing wasn't sure.

When the Canadian registry came into effect ,the gun had to be verified in order to be registered ,and as there were no makers name it was done by proof marks ...you can imagine our astonishment when the gun had only Belgian black powder proofs ,and as we later discovered Laminated steel barrels under the paint ,this started my quest for info on the old doubles and had me ultimately end up here and on other similar minded forums.

So do I have a fear of composite barreled guns?...not really .

But in saying that ,about a year before it was bought I lived in Calgary Alberta ,during one of my regular killing time visits to the local big box hunting store I noticed a rack of about 15-20 old doubles in the corner,some were absolutely beautiful .there 16.12 and 10 gauge guns there were a bunch of English doubles in the mix as well, one was a crystal indicator Scott as I recall...I went back week after week and looked them over ,and listened to the clerks warning of wall hanger and black powder only ,you can't shoot them etc ...but I couldn't take my eyes off them ...how many times did I stroll in with the intention of buying the whole lot but just didn't,because I was scrimping and saving for the house I would build back home in Newfoundland ,that was my mission .

When I did leave Calgary it was a quick decision ,basically I woke up one morning packed my bags and went ...But the $50-$100.00 price tags on those guns has literally haunted me to this day

[MarketHunter]

Chris I'm going to have to come up there one of these days for a saltwater bird shoot. I've read about it and it sounds like tons of fun.

DLH

[King Cobb]

I am not aware of the price of doubles going up, but I do regret not buying a K98 or 2 or a colt python a decade ago....

[Dean Romig]

Actually, Sherman Bell was inspired to perform his destructive experiments and subsequently write his "Finding Out" articles by the ongoing feuding between the two polarized camps of the pro and con folks regarding the safety or lack thereof in shooting composite barreled guns with nitro powders. At the time of Bell's first article there were a great many shooters who wouldn't give a second thought to shooting a composite barreled gun with nitro powders as long as the pressures were moderate but there were times more shooters who were absolutely horrified at the thought. The ratio of believers vs non-believers has changed as a result of Sherman's articles but not by much I suspect.
Long before Bell conducted his experiments I was advised by Dr. Oscar Gaddy that shooting my 16 0-frame sixteen with .064" wall thickness at the front of the chambers would be fine with loads under 7,500 psi. Even before that I was shooting My Damascus 12 gay with 'off the shelf' ammo, and I know a lot of others who were as well. But we do owe a lot of thanks to Sherman Bell for popularizing the shooting of our composite barreled guns and for helping to elevate the value of these guns.

[chris dawe]

Originally Posted by Destry L. Hoffard

Chris I'm going to have to come up there one of these days for a saltwater bird shoot. I've read about it and it sounds like tons of fun.

DLH

With the inshore fishery closed for years now its hard to find a good man with a boat to take us out ,and believe me November in the North Atlantic you need someone who knows their business ...I have an uncle, a retired fisherman in his seventies now who would likely be game for a day or two ,and a couple buddies who may be able to help ...but the times they sure are a changing unfortunately

You can get them from the beach during foul weather ,but at it's best its a jump shooting proposition in a 18-20 foot open boat...up here we have our good guns for in the country and guns for on the water ie single shot 12 gauge , or rickety old beater

[edgarspencer]

Armbrust and Bell are the guys who dispelled the myth, in my eyes, but I was loading very light smokeless 16 ga. ammo many years before they did there tests.
What I feel was most significant in their testing was not so much the closeness of the pressures, at failure, of steel vs. composite, but that the pressures were nearly double any ammo you can get off the shelf.

[Kensal Rise]

Over a century before Sherman Bell and Armbrust performed their tests, the Birmingham Proof House had proven the issue. In 1891, they tested a host of Damascus, twist and fluid steel barrels to the point of failure with nitro loads. The barrels that stood the highest pressures? English Damascus came in Nos. 1, 2 & 3. Siemens-Martin fluid steel came in at No. 4. This is partially why composite barrels are NOT an issue in the UK as long as they pass proof.
But Bell and Armbrust put the proof infront of American shooters. My hat's off to them.

[Mills]

Often the less there is to justify a traditional custom the harder it is to get rid it.
-- Mark Twain

Talk to any Damascus hold out and you will see what he meant.