Vintage shells ?

[Cold Spring]

My shooting gang had breakfast today and one of my buds came with the box of shells shown here.

From what I can see they are 12 gauge 1-1/8 ounce loads of chilled 7's in UMC "New Club" hulls and are loaded with 3-1/2 drams of black powder.

One of my vintage references shows that New Club hulls (empties) were normally used for black powder loads, available in 2-3/4" and 3" length and used the UMC #2 primer.

This is not a For Sale advert. Anyone know what this box might be worth to a collector?

[Craig Larter]

Frank send an email to Eric Ward at Wards Auction eric@wardscollectibles.com , he will give you a estimate. Obscure Company boxes with a plain label bring $500. to $1000. but that is my guess, Eric will give you a good number. Craig

[Cold Spring]

Thanks Craig, I will do that.

[Researcher]

I've got four reference books on shotgun shell boxes and Kugler & Wollens don't show up in any of them. You might try a post on the International Ammunition Association site --

http://cartridgecollectors.org/

[Cold Spring]

Thank you Dave. I registered for the Int. Ammo forum and just then received a reply from Eric Ward who wrote in effect, the shells are very unusual and he hasn't seen them before, he checked a few books and couldn't find anything on the maker. He also thought they'd fetch $500. to $1000. at auction and "could bring more". I'll pass that info to my shooting friend.

[Researcher]

The UMC NEW CLUB shell first appears in UMC's 1892 price list. By 1901, UMC only offered the NEW CLUB as a loaded shell and the same case sold as an NPE was head-stamped UNION.

UMC UNION No. 10 NPE.jpg

UMC UNION NPEs 1901.png

[Cold Spring]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

UMC NEW CLUB shell first appears in UMC's 1892 price list. By 1901, UMC only offered the NEW CLUB as a loaded shell and the same case sold as an NPE was head-stamped UNION.

Dave, thanks again for your help but something doesn't jive with my data, i.e., in August 1915 the E. K. Tryon Company of Phila was advertising UMC "New Club" empty paper shells at $9.00 per 1000 in 2-3/4 and 3" long hulls. Tryon's catalogue illustration of the empties definitely shows U.M.C. Co. and NEW CLUB on the headstamp.

[Researcher]

Between the October 1908 and the June 1909 UMC price lists UMC dropped the unique head-stamps for their NPEs and began stamping "HAND LOADED" on the paper tube. From the 1910 Catalogue --

1910 NEW CLUB NPEs.jpeg

In 1911, Marcellus Hartley Dodge combined his arms and ammunition companies as Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. So, from 1911 on the head-stamp became Remington-UMC --

1911-12 NEW CLUB NPEs.jpeg

By the 1915-16 Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogue the head-stamp had become REM-UMC --

1915-16 Catalog NEW CLUB NPEs.jpeg

E.K. Tryon either hadn't updated their pictures or they were attempting to move some old stock. Also, of note, circa 1901 UMC went to the eight-pointed star around the primer pocket on both their NEW CLUB and UNION black powder hulls, another clue for the shells in question being from the 1890s.

[Milton C Starr]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

Between the October 1908 and the June 1909 UMC price lists UMC dropped the unique head-stamps for their NPEs and began stamping "HAND LOADED" on the paper tube. From the 1910 Catalogue --

Attachment 80286

In 1911, Marcellus Hartley Dodge combined his arms and ammunition companies as Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. So, from 1911 on the head-stamp became Remington-UMC --

Attachment 80285

By the 1915-16 Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogue the head-stamp had become REM-UMC --

Attachment 80287

E.K. Tryon either hadn't updated their pictures or they were attempting to move some old stock. Also, of note, circa 1901 UMC went to the eight-pointed star around the primer pocket on both their NEW CLUB and UNION black powder hulls, another clue for the shells in question being from the 1890s.

Ive never seen a 10 ga 3 1/4 American gun but theres a Clabrough and Johnstone 10 ga 3 1/4" double on GI . I was wondering if that was a oddball chamber length or not . Seems someone was making them .

[charlie cleveland]

probably a brass hull i have a coupla that measure close to 3 1/4 inches...got a brass parker brothers 12 ga that measures 4 inches...wish i had the gun that was built for this shell...charlie