Soft gun prices - Page 3

Kirk Potter · 08-13-2018, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mills Morrison

Being in the buying mode, a buyer's market is fine with me.

Couldn’t agree more. I’m 32 and just really starting to acquire a “collection”

Southpaw · 08-13-2018, 10:49 AM

Supply is only half of the equation. Supply is fixed since they aren't making anymore old guns, availability is the other operative concept of supply. True, availability has increased due to internet with speed to market and collections becoming available. Obviously the elephant in the room though is Demand. There is a need for more Mills and Kirks to enter the market, but will they.

The current demand based on buyer profiles that was understood and wiling to pay premium prices is just a diminishing lot. Obviously there are still some premium collectors that are willing to pay or sell guns at high prices and that is a tight knit group and an anomaly not in step with the larger market. As mentioned unfortunately the market is becoming a bit bifurcated between high grade collector guns and the ones that aren't. I think that is where the price depression and market confusion is mostly coming from. I got a feeling its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Just think we are talking about soft sxs gun market in one of the biggest bull markets.

Joe Graziano · 08-13-2018, 11:00 AM

I tend to agree, and can relate to the story about sellers. I recently saw a hammer shotgun for sale on GI. It was sort of an oddball 20 ga, made in the 1950s. Very well worn and from a previously unheard of maker. An "expert" advised him it was really a Beretta, because it was made a Brescia-made gun. It surely was not a Beretta. The seller isn't a gun guy and wanted nearly $1000 for the gun based on the expert's advice, which was entirely unrealistic. From what I have seen, it may bring $200-250 at auction. We exchanged email, I did a bit of educating and I politely suggested keeping grandpa's old gun in the family. The family really wanted to sell and would take $550, again unrealistic. I figured it would be fun on a quail hunt this fall and offered $300. The guy disappeared. My guess is, he thought I was trying to rip him off when in reality, $300 was the most he was going to get for it. At auction, the family would probably net maybe $150. Such is life.

Bill Murphy · 08-13-2018, 11:17 AM

I think we are seriously overthinking the soft market for double guns. Average guns, in condition or rarity, are of little interest to collectors and are almost impossible to sell at any reasonable price. Hot guns, whether in condition, rarity, or bore size, sell quickly at a reasonable price. Collectors are still searching for and buying hot guns. What is a "reasonable price" is a matter of opinion and sets the market for these hot guns. I recently bought a wonderful original late NID Ithaca 12 gauge with factory single trigger and ejectors, much color, for $280 from a local gun store who had had it for weeks with that price posted on it. If it had been posted by one of our dealer friends on the internet, it would have been priced at $750 or $800, or even more. The sellers of average guns are their own worst enemy in their search for ignorant and uninformed buyers. I agree so much with Craig Larter and Bill Mullins that I will keep buying great guns with no expectation except to enjoy them.

Joe Graziano · 08-13-2018, 11:25 AM

Well said, Bill. There is a huge supply of shooter-grade guns for fantastic prices, and that makes me very happy. As I noted above, there are some sellers with unrealistic expectations and I simply pass. However, the auctions are chock full of great old guns. One needs to be careful but assuming you are, there are deals to be had. I took a flyer on a VH for a whopping $100. It has some cosmetic issues, but otherwise is rock solid with perfect bores. Someone opened the chokes and put on a very nice replacement stock, and ugly (to me) but functional beavertail forend. The gun is absolutely fantastic on skeet and clays. I now have an excellent Parker shotgun for skeet, clays and soon hunting for $100. That's just amazing. I will spend money when I need to, such as my K-gun for trap, but I'll take a $100 Parker any day.

Southpaw · 08-13-2018, 11:43 AM

Joe about 3 years ago went to local gun shop that mostly sells black guns and they had on consignment a few old sxs's. One really called to me it was a neat old cap and ball muzzle loading sxs with damascus barrels made in England but could get a name on who made gun. I shoot lefty since left eye dominant and long time ago someone had modified the original stock for a lefty. I really thought it was neat. Everything functioned on the gun but there is no telling about the bores on that gun. They wanted $275 and I said $200 and seller said no. I went back a few weeks later gun still there and the dealer was saying he won't charge em a commission since it was black powder an probably not safe to shoot so no paperwork would need to be generated and if my offer was still good and I said sure. This guy does a lot of traffic and I was only person in 6 months that made a serious offer. He called them and they still said no. He told them on the phone to come get their gun.

BTW $100 for Parker, that is a find.

Kirk Potter · 08-13-2018, 12:43 PM

I’ve noticed the amount of available guns seems to have slowed a bit recently, on the for sale section here, and on gunsinternational. I search “Parker” on gunsinternational probably 10 times a day, and it seems lately new listings aren’t being added as fast as they used to be. Same on here.

Richard Flanders · 08-13-2018, 01:22 PM

I feel very fortunate to have the one family member, a niece who works in a large gun store, that will appreciate and take good care of and shoot the VHE20 - my mothers gun - that I presented to her recently. You should have seen the look on her face when I told her that if she were not who she was that I would have sold the gun. She understood better after I gave her the speech on being just the caretaker for the next caretaker who gets the gun.

King Cobb · 08-13-2018, 02:27 PM

Gun prices always get soft in the summer. I collect a variety of different brands. I have noticed guns seem to historically be cheaper in June, July, and early August. I bought a brand new in box Colt special Combat for about $800 below retail just last summer. Thats better than most of my experiences but it is there.

Part of the issue is people try to sell, how do I word this, more common/poorer condition guns for the prices that they see higher condition possibly far more collectible guns for sell. I am sorry, but a 2 frame DH 12 gauge with 30" barrels with worn barrels and no case colors isn't a rare enough gun that you should be pricing it based off of the price of a 1 frame DHE with 26 or 32 inch barrels and in high condition. But people do this.

People also try to sell guns as a complete unknown entity for the prices they see Steve Barnett or Puglisi or some other well known gun dealer has guns listed for. You aren't going to get that premium if you don't have that reputation and client base.

Often they are just clueless about the actual condition of their gun in the 1st place. I recently ran across someone trying to get rid of their grandfather's DHE 16. It was straight stocked and a 16 with ejectors so it had some interest value, but at the same time, the butt plate was gone and replaced with a vent pad, the barrels had no blue, no case, stock was only 13 LOP, engraving appeared to have been buffed, and both pieces of wood were heavily gouged and abused. There were prices I would have been interested in the gun at, but $8,000 was nowhere in the ballpark. I asked where he got that price and was told, "its a parker, they sale for way more than that online." Attempts to explain the difference in quality and grade and condition and such between what he had and what he had looked at were not successful. But this is what I do run into on the rare occasions I stumble upon a "locally" available gun.

I agree with Mr. Mullins, I do not buy guns for profit, despite what I tell my wife..."Its an investment dear." At the same time I do try to not make donations to idiots who think they have something they don't. I think collectors tend to get negative about the future of collecting as they age. I am on the younger end of the spectrum and have read heaps of nashing of teeth by colt people convinced no one is going to keep buying SAAs....yet just like Parkers the prices aren't getting any cheaper.

Gary Laudermilch · 08-13-2018, 03:15 PM

A short while ago I went to a local auction that had listed a Parker. Indeed it was a Parker VH 12 on a 2 frame with 30" barrels. It was, in my opinion, of just average condition. A good shooter grade gun but it was a common hardware store Parker. There were several guys looking it over and discussing how valuable Parkers are. One of these guys bought it for double what I thought it was worth. Go figure!