New project: Ithaca crass model

[alcaviglia]

Bach and Jeff, I found it a bit difficult to post photos into a thread, so I instead created an album entitled "Ithaca Crass (1901) 12 gauge". All receiver and forend iron parts are accounted for (less a coil spring - I think - that was not there to begin with and I don't feel it is necessary; I'll explain that during reassembly.).

I'll have to put together a list of the names of each part.

@Bach: when you know what parts your shotgun is missing, send me a PM and I can send back that part's critical dimensions, just in case. I won't get calipers/micrometers on them until tomorrow afternoon.

[alcaviglia]

UPDATE: part names are now below each photo with their corresponding number.

[Bach Melick]

Al, thank you so very much for taking the time to disassemble, photograph and catalog those 63 parts comprising the Ithaca Crass shotgun. I've been out of town for the past several days and need to get unpacked and settled in again, so it will take me a day or two to get back to my project... but these photos will definitely be a great start so I can initially identify the parts I do not yet have...

BTW, are there any specialty tools I will need to use to properly reassemble the shotgun?

[alcaviglia]

My pleasure, I had forgotten how many little bits and pieces there are to a legitimate disassembly of that shotgun.

I've gotten through the dimensioning of the pins and screws. Next will be the springs and firing mechanism. Once I'm done with those, I will begin reassembling each section for the tutorial. Most of that is pretty self-explanatory, but I'll go through it in respectable detail, nonetheless.

As for specialty tools, not really. You'll need a couple of punches and turnscrews or old screwdrivers (all flat head - there shouldn't be a Phillips anywhere on this gun) that you wouldn't mind filing/grinding down to fit properly. In that case, you would need a grinder of sorts and/or a file or two. Any type of bench vise will work for the screwdriver "project". I may use some old drivers in the tutorial and just file them down quickly - I've amassed plenty that I can grind away at.

If you don't have a secure vise, a couple of c-clamps to a bench or table will also work to help when seating the hammers. You can do it against your stomach, but it's not very comfortable. As for the punches, you will NEED 1/16" and 5/32". Others will work, but those two are required. And, of course, a hammer of some kind. Anything will do, but around 4 oz. is acceptable. Maybe a piece of hardwood to support certain sections when driving pins (I use 2 pieces of 1x3 maple cut about 6" long that I can stack for two separate heights). A pair of electrical needle nosed pliers (small with smooth jaws) for the trigger spring alignment/tuning and a pair of close in snips if you have to replace the spring - it may need to be trimmed to size so as not to get in the way of the trigger-sear contact.

Off the top of my head, that's all I can think of.

[Bach Melick]

Thanks! I have all the punches (1/16" and 5/32") and flathead screwdrivers and gunsmith hammers (brass, nylon, different sizes & weights) and needle nose pliers and bench vise, so I should be covered on all the tools (except maybe those close-in snips, but I can easily get what I need...).

[Bach Melick]

I finally got a chance to thoroughly go through your photos and compare them to the parts I have. The first thing which stands out is that some of my parts differ, although many are quite similar. Based on the serial number on my Ithaca 12 gauge double barrel side-by-side hammerless shotgun (s/n 22665), I was under the impression I had a Crass made in 1893 (based on THIS LIST, but now I'm not quite sure, although my parts are identical to the photos I received from Jeff Bonadurer...)

Al, based on the photos in your album, coupled with studying my parts and logically seeing how things fit and function, I was almost able to completely re-assemble my shotgun, although I have not been able (nor have I really tried) to install those two v-shaped mainsprings... I'm sure there must be a trick to properly install those...

I will post photos when I get more time tomorrow, but in the meantime, I have determined I am missing the following parts for my shotgun (I will follow Al's part numbering from his photo album):

(6) Hand Pin - end threaded & tapered (shorter length)

(17) Trigger Spring Pin - full length threads
(18) Trigger Spring - wire
(19) Safety T-Bar (trigger block)
* Note* I am not sure whether I actually need parts (17), (18) and (19), as my safety mechanism is different than what Al showed in his photo album...?

(14) Safety Slide Button Spring

(32) Sear Spring Pin/Hammer Pin
* Note* there should be four (4) total, but I have three (3), plus another similar pin which actually fits but is not the same as the others

(43) Firing Pin Return Spring

(38) Mainspring Strain Pin *Note* mine are both there, but one has a stripped head

(30) Grip Cap *Note* I just cannot figure out whether I am actually missing this parts, as I simply cannot see where it would logically go...?

(48) Trip Spring
(49) Trip Pin

(50) Straddle Block Set Screw *Note* I easily replaced this with a modern 10-32 fine thread set screw from the hardware store

(51)(52)(54) Top Lever Pin - full length threads, Top Lever, Top Lever Cam
*Note* on my shotgun, these 3 parts are all one solid piece...

Additionally, my shotgun was also missing a set screw of some type which retained the ejector underneath both barrels, but again, I easily replaced that missing part with a modern 10-32 fine thread set screw from the hardware store

my shotgun also has a long straight pin which protrudes from the rear of the (53) Locking Bolt Straddle Block, which seems to engage the tip of the (13) Safety Slide...

I'm going to see which of these parts I can order from Numrich Arms - Gun Parts Corp...

anyway, I will post my photos tomorrow - maybe I can also create a photo album here for reference...

[alcaviglia]

Ah, I feared that we would run into this: yours is a Crass and what I'm using for the tutorial isn't, what I worked on is a Crass and yours isn't, or there exist variations.

Crass Model vs. NIG, perhaps???

I suspect that I am using the same date of manufacture list as you are. I briefly exchanged correspondence with Walt Snyder regarding a factory letter on the shotgun and he did not correct me when I referred to this one as a Crass model (of course, I'm sure we both know what assumption is worth - I never asked him straight away, didn't think to until now). Serial # on this gun is 56889.

I will continue to compile the tutorial, if for no other reason than to finish it.

UPDATE: I scrapped the video idea - too difficult without a second camera and/or an "assistant" to man one of the cameras - it was coming out poorly. Though I did learn about how long-winded I am. I took pictures of every step, save one...timing the locking bolt (I forgot to snap a few while doing that). I'm going back this afternoon to get photos of that operation as the shotgun must be returned to its owner tomorrow evening.

[Bach Melick]

Originally Posted by alcaviglia

I took pictures of every step, save one...timing the locking bolt (I forgot to snap a few while doing that). I'm going back this afternoon to get photos of that operation as the shotgun must be returned to its owner tomorrow evening.

Thanks, Al, that would help a lot. I think these shotguns are similar enough such that your pictorial tutorial will indeed help me in reassembling mine. On my shotgun, I am missing the (48) Trip Spring and (49) Trip Pin, so I would like to know how these two parts interact together in conjunction with the locking bolt...

Also, my shotgun is also missing the (17) Trigger Spring Pin - full length threads and (18) Trigger Spring - wire; I see on the Numrich - Gun Parts Corp website I can order the Trigger Spring Screw, but they no longer have the Trigger Spring available, so in case I need to recreate that, and if you have not already returned the shotgun to its owner, then would you please take detailed photos (with dimensions, as well as possibly spring rate) so I can maybe get a Trigger Spring made somewhere...

[Bach Melick]

Originally Posted by alcaviglia

Ah, I feared that we would run into this: yours is a Crass and what I'm using for the tutorial isn't, what I worked on is a Crass and yours isn't, or there exist variations.

Crass Model vs. NIG, perhaps???

I suspect that I am using the same date of manufacture list as you are. I briefly exchanged correspondence with Walt Snyder regarding a factory letter on the shotgun, and he did not correct me when I referred to this one as a Crass model (of course, I'm sure we both know what assumption is worth - I never asked him straight away, didn't think to until now). Serial # on this gun is 56889.

Based again on THIS LIST, and under the section titled CRASS & NIG MODELS, Ithaca manufactured your s/n 56889 in 1901, right toward the end of that serial number range and before the transition to the LEWIS & NIG MODELS list. So I am going to assume Ithaca changed (improved?) some things along the way and incorporated those design changes into your s/n 56889, which is why some of the parts differ from my own s/n 22665 shotgun...

[alcaviglia]

Originally Posted by Bach Melick

Based again on THIS LIST, and under the section titled CRASS & NIG MODELS, Ithaca manufactured your s/n 56889 in 1901, right toward the end of that serial number range and before the transition to the LEWIS & NIG MODELS list. So I am going to assume Ithaca changed (improved?) some things along the way and incorporated those design changes into your s/n 56889, which is why some of the parts differ from my own s/n 22665 shotgun...

I can buy that there were some changes over that time frame. I would have to look at your shotgun to understand if the difference in the safety mechanism is one of those changes, and/or if it has anything to do with yours being an ejector gun. The safety assembly seems to be the most profound difference.

The difference in the top lever/cam assembly only makes sense as an improvement if you break the lever and have to replace it. Then having it affixed to the cam with a pin will come in handy, but when installing those parts, I would think that the single piece found on yours and Jeff's is much easier. The differences in the top lever assembly will have no impact on the timing of the locking bolt, so that part of the tutorial will still apply to your shotgun in it's entirety.

As for the trigger spring, assuming that it is the same in your shotgun as it is in this one, I don't think you need to have one made. It is just a piece of spring wire for shotgun triggers. As long as it is bent to engage the triggers in their forward positions, there will be no slop. You will need a piece of spring wire approximately 2.5" long that you can work into the proper radius to fit in the channel for it on the trigger plate. Spring wire size is 0.024" which is S.W.G. = 23 or M.W.G. (Piano Wire) = 10.