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02-23-2018, 05:00 PM | #3 | ||||||
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Bob Brister The Art and Science of Shotgun shooting remains the premier work on the subject.
Several things I have concluded with much shooting. 1. The best performing loads for each gauge are the nominal ones; 1 1/8 for 12, 1 for 16, 7/8 for 20, etc. 2. The concept of a true square load is that the height of the shot column equals its diameter. I know of no real evidence that this concept means a better load nor does it make sense to me that it would. It just sounds nice. 3. The best velocities are from about 1150 to 1200 for the nicest pattern. 4. Overloading shot beyond optimum for the gauge results in stringing, which may be beneficial in a crossing target. For a straight away target I don’t think it makes any difference. 5. Underloading shot results in holes in the pattern. 6. Too much velocity , much above 1200, can result in a hole in the center of the pattern. You asked about a square load. I said what is really meant by that term, and to reiterate, I think it’s something the writers in the shooting magazines talk about without showing test results and that is without basis. |
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The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bruce Day For Your Post: |
02-23-2018, 06:39 PM | #4 | ||||||
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I guess its a chicken and egg discussion.
Found this article that backs up some of what you are saying Bruce. However it talks about stringing caused by choke patterns, shot deformation due to charges and soft material. I find it hard to correlate that load shape like the British discuss in squaring the loads. Would object of squaring the load suffice regardless of choke patterns, charges and material in itself make things pattern better, or does addressing the those issues just get close to a square load. Btw Bruce does Brister mention square loads. https://shotgunreport.com/2014/04/29/shot-string-2/ |
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02-23-2018, 10:23 PM | #6 | ||||||
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Oh Lawdy. Did a little more perusing and came across this thread in shotgunworld forum from about 10 years ago talking about square loads. Lots of good debate and them boys played rough with one another.
Again nothing definitive but I did like the discussion about how well 16 ga and 28 ga perform at 1 oz and respective 3/4 oz loads as these two gauges seem pattern well and have less shot string. Anyway. Sounds like it is a healthy debate and you can read their discussion if so inclined. I swear if some of those guys would have been in same room it would have come to fisticuffs if they talked that way in person. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...03c80&start=20 |
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02-24-2018, 05:44 AM | #7 | ||||||
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Whether they are square or not I really like light loads. In 12ga I like to shoot clays with 7/8 ounce of shot at about 1200. At the 16 yard line in trap I have not seen a change in my score but there is a big change in felt recoil and a bag of shot goes a lot further. For crow shooting 1 ounce in 12ga and 1 1/8 in 10ga will knock the tall ones down nicely with a tight choke. A 1 1/4 ounce load of bismuth in a short ten will flatten any duck to 40 yards and little more. I have been sold on light loads for quite awhile.
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Progress is the mortal enemy of the Outdoorsman. |
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The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Pete Lester For Your Post: |
02-24-2018, 08:38 AM | #8 | ||||||
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Agree with Pete, advantages of light shot loads loads are significant and easily demonstrated, “square” am not so sure.
William |
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The Following User Says Thank You to William Davis For Your Post: |
02-24-2018, 09:44 AM | #9 | ||||||
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Same here Pete. Being a handloader like you I've gone to 3/4oz. loads in 12, 16, 20 and of course 28 and have been very pleased at the performance on birds and clays. Are they for everyone? Probably not because of the mindset that exists in the American shooter; you know... bigger is better. I believe that the loads that Parker suggested for the various gauges were at a time when they needed more shot in a load to perform on the pattern plate. The components available to us now are far superior and lighter loads perform so efficiently especially with tight chokes.
A few years back at Hausmann's I was talking with Morris Baker of RST fame and we were talking light loads. He reached into his pocket and handed me a few of his newest loads, 3/4oz 12 ga. which were in the development stage at that time. I reached into my vest and handed him a couple of my 3/4oz. 12 ga. loads which were also in development. Coincidence I guess but his claim was that he has'nt found a target that he could'nt break with it. I agree.
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02-24-2018, 09:54 AM | #10 | ||||||
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Lots of variables to consider or not at all. I think this issue I broached is almost like talking about caliber and load performances in rifles, which is a very circular discussion.
I think only reason Brister tried to understand it, as suggested by others, is he was seeking competitive greatness at the skeet range. I think that and a passing game shots, which the British predominately have, is the crux of the issue. I think before modern technology of slow mo photography trial and error was the only way and the Brits simplified it by saying square the load for better performance. Obviously other cause and effect issues at play. What I gleaned from sources is that with lead shot, shot stringing can reduce pattern efficiency by 25 to 30 percent at normal ranges. That makes a difference at passing shots like at skeet range or dove and duck hunting to my thinking. Flushing game or maybe even trap shooting and having to manage shot stringing or net effect squaring the load is not a big deal, hence no one really cares. Shoot what you got. What I did learn and suspect many here already knew is that even so called experts are left scratching their head why 16 gauge and 28 gauges perform better with patterns and less shot stringing. To them applying all the principles they learned they can't explain it, its like saying a bumble bee should not be able to fly, but yet it does and quite well. Funny thing is I am sitting right next to a box of Winchester AA Supersport Sporting Clays loads 12 gauge, 1 oz 8 shot, 2 3/4 inch shells with a velocity of 1350 fps. I also have box of 16 gauge, 1 oz 8 shot, 2 3/4 inch shells with 2.5 dram equivalent so not certain on how many feet per second that equates to. Anyway, would love to see a slow motion camera of their performance through a modified choke. Obviously one is more square than the other. |
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