Parker 1/2 frames

terc · 10-05-2013, 07:39 AM

I saw a nice Parker 1/2 frame gun at the Vintagers last week. It is a really nice gun. Compared to the same grade in a 1 or 1 1/2 frame the price is more than double . Do these guns really bring the premium price asked ?
Thanks, Dave

B. Dudley · 10-05-2013, 09:05 AM

There were very few of them made in the Remington (Ilion) era. Maybe as low as a few hundred.
The general belief is that the 1/2 frame was developed in Meriden around 1930. This is based on surviving factory engineers drawings. A run of frames may have even been made in Meriden, but not put into production. They were later used by Remington. Possibly when their supply of 1 frames ran low or out.

This belief can be came to based on a couple different supposed "facts"...
All 1/2 frame guns found have been Remington (Illion) made. And it is believed that Remington never actually made any Parker frames. They only were usng up left over Meriden stock.

It remains a mystery. And until a Meriden (Parker Bros.) made 1/2 frame gun is found, it is hard to say any different.

Craig Reynolds wrote a good article on this subject in the Winter 2009 Parker Pages. And I Also have an article in the Summer 2013 DGJ that touches on this topic.

CSMC currently has for sale a Meriden made BH grade that is advertised as a 1/2 frame gun. When I saw it, my interest was obviously peaked. But farther investigation revealed it to be originally a 16g gun that was returned to Remington at some point and it was fitted with 12g barrels. And the barrels fitted were marked with 1/2 on the lug since that is the frame size the barrels would have been made for.

Bill Murphy · 10-05-2013, 09:21 AM

As Brian suggests, there are #1 frame guns out there with barrels marked "1/2". It is assumed that 1/2 frame guns were made in the period of the factory blueprints, around 1930. As I recall, there are stock book entries for a series of 1/2 frame experimental guns earlier than the Remington acquisition. Craig's article may list them.

terc · 10-05-2013, 09:36 AM

Thanks for the info. I checked out both articles. They are interesting guns. But what is your opinion on the premium prices asked for them ?
Dave

B. Dudley · 10-05-2013, 09:55 AM

That is a topic of my article Bill. At least as it relates to 1/2 frames. Sine my writing was about a gun (226709) that was long thought to be something it is not. TPS assumed that number 226709 was an experimental gun for the 1/2 frame. But in my finding of this gun and documenting of it, it is in fact an experimental gun, but it is nota 1/2 frame. It is a 1-1/2 frame. It was my conclusion, that in the days prior to the use of rubber stamps for frame sizes In the stock books, that all 1/2 hand written entries were actually to mean 1-1/2 size. This hand written period covered about 4 years if I remember correctly.

My suspicion is that if Stock books were to examined after the rubber stamping for frame size was used, a 1/2 size would NOT be found recorded in Meriden records.

Regarding value... Anything that is hard to find and carries mystique is going to command a premium. In general, Ilion made guns can command some premium due to be few were are in the grand scheme of things.

Many assume the 1/2 frame as be some ultra light 12g. But many who own or have inspected legit 1/2 frame guns find they are not all that much lighter than 1 frames.

For anyone out there that does not get the DGJ and is wondering what I am speaking about. I urge you... Order the Summer 2013 issue and enjoy it.

Eldon Goddard · 10-05-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Dudley

Many assume the 1/2 frame as be some ultra light 12g. But many who own or have inspected legit 1/2 frame guns find they are not all that much lighter than 1 frames.

That is what I was wondering. I wonder what the lightest 12 ga hammerless was?

Mills · 10-05-2013, 02:11 PM

Ron Kirby did an article on the 1/2 frame in one of the old Parker Pages.

Bruce Day · 10-06-2013, 09:03 AM

xxx

Bill Murphy · 10-06-2013, 09:10 AM

I have an order copy for a six pound 12 gauge. If I can dig it out, I will post the specifics. The AAHE 12 offered for sale at Robin Hollow was ordered at 6 1/2 pounds from Abercrombie and Fitch. I believe it is a 28" gun. My 1/2 frame DHE weighs about 6 1/2 pounds with the 12 gauge barrels and about the same with the 16 gauge barrels. Both sets are 28", but the stock is very small.

Bill Murphy · 01-18-2020, 09:58 AM

The AAHE I mentioned is owned by a friend who bought it at auction for a very low price after it was advertised as "wall thickness below recommended minimum" implying that it had been honed. It was not honed after being made at Parker Brothers. It was just ordered to be very light. I couldn't afford the gun at the time, so I recommended that my friend bid on it.