Does anyone have an earlier Monte Carlo hammerless?

[Craig Larter]

Does anyone own or have knowledge of an earlier than 111805 factory Monte Carlo stocked Parker? Thanks Craig Larter

[Craig Budgeon]

Monte Carlo stocks were an extra cost option, your gun is listed with no extras in the PGI&S. However, it may have been restocked by a later date by Parker. I've had 4 MC stocked Parkers in my hands, none that early.

[Craig Larter]

The Parker letter on the gun states Monte Carlo stock.

[B. Dudley]

Besides the letter, I have worked on this gun. It is factory original.

[Craig Budgeon]

Well there appears to be an error in the records concerning Craig's DH since PGIS and the letter don't agree on stock configuration. As early as 1895 the showroom catalog offers a Monte Carlo stocks on all grades for $10 extra so earlier examples should exist

[OH Osthaus]

Originally Posted by Craig Budgeon

since PGIS and the letter don't agree on stock configuration.

not the first time - most likely not the last

as with the "pirate code" it's more what you'd call "guidelines"

[Pa SxS]

Originally Posted by Craig Budgeon

Well there appears to be an error in the records concerning Craig's DH since PGIS and the letter don't agree on stock configuration. As early as 1895 the showroom catalog offers a Monte Carlo stocks on all grades for $10 extra so earlier examples should exist

I don't think the PGIS is necessairly in error, I just don't think the authors included Monty Carlo Stocks in their column for Stock type found in the section with all the Serial Numbers. I know that under the codes section it shows a "M" for Monte Carlo but I went through a heck of a lot of pages and never once saw a "M". I looked through high S/N pages and pages around Craig's S/N but didn't find any "M's". I also went through the archived letter database and compared those letters that showed a Monte Carlo Stock with the PGIS book and none showed the "M".

The only way to know if the gun had a Monte Carlo stock is if it's written in the Order Book, like Craig's gun was, or it would be found in the Stock Book when looking at the stock configuration. It would look like: 1 1/2" x 1 5/8" x 2 1/2".

Looking through the archived research letters, I found 2 guns with earlier S/N's than Craig's gun. The earliest one is 88761 that was actually originally ordered as a Monte Carlo, there are 3 drops in inches listed plus 3 lengths of pull listed. The words Monty Carlo Stock is not found in the order. It's a BH gun. The second gun is 86076, a AAH with a straight stock that was returned to Parker to "patch stock to make Monte Carlo."

[Craig Larter]

Chuck thanks so much for your great efforts I really appreciate it. It does seem that the MC stock was uncommon if only two before mine in the factory letter archive showed up. I was hoping my gun would qualify for the earliest reported MC for the PP listing. Oh well it is a cool gun.

[Craig Budgeon]

Chuck thanks for clarifying the intent of the authors of the PGIS. I always felt that stock configuration only referred to the grip style employed and since Monte Carlo stocks were only available as an additional cost option they were confined to the X column.

[Pa SxS]

Also, if you see "B" in the stock configuration, that's a 1/2 pistol grip, not a true ball grip as found on hammer guns. My early ball grip liter is listed just as a p.g..