Why is the attendance at SxS events down?

[Craig Larter]

It seems to me that the attendance at the SxS events I attend have been steadily gone down the last few years. I realize the scheduling conflict this last weekend played a role but many regulars did not attend either event. My take is a couple of issues. The events have become more focused on competitive events over the years in my opinion. That is great if you are a top shooter but most are not. The same 5 or 6 guys compete and the rest sit and cheer our favorite manufacturer. I think many average shooters don't want to spend $1.00 per target knowing they will never qualify. I think a not for score rate with self pulled targets for the first day would encourage more shooter/attendees to participate. Fewer competitive events/classes/gauges/gun styles would make the remaining events more important.
I would also like to see some new guns displayed by the Collector Associations. The same guys keep displaying their guns event after event. How about a display of fresh guns from an individual collector by association and a vote by all attendee's of the best display across all the Collector Associations.
Four day events are way too long for most folks and the cost becomes prohibitive for folks traveling. I think 2 day events would be better for vendors and most traveling shooters.
What say you????

[B. Dudley]

Getting this late in the year, hunting seasons or saving time to take later hunting trips may be playing a big role. I know that is what stops a lot of people from going to the fall southern.

[Double Lab]

I think you pretty much nailed it Craig. I think a four day shoot is stretching things a bit for most shooters, three days max. A hunters class should be set up for shooters who want to shoot but not compete against the top dogs who are master class shooters. Trying to have 10, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32 and .410 events, in my opinion, is not really needed. 10,12,16=big bore. 20, 24,28, 32,.410=smallbore. Keep it simple. Mike set up some great targets. All in my opinion were breakable with a 28 ga. So just set up one course, start handicapping from 20 ga. down and make it a 100 target event. Make the entry fee reasonable, most courses I shoot are from $35-$40, and if you want to compete against the big guys have a money option or a lewis class.

I know I go to these events for the friends I have made through the years and to look at all the bling. I can shoot much cheaper around here but seeing all the guys and gals is the main reason I attend. I'll support Mike at the Rock because he makes me feel as if I'm a friend and not just another shooter. That's the main reason I stopped attending the vintage cup.

[C.O.B.]

The bottom line is it's expensive. The weekend at The Rock with travel, hotel, food and shooting would have run close to a grand and as I'm leaving for Wyoming Thursday it just wasn't in the cards. Next year I plan on going. I think three days is plenty of time to burn powder and reconnect with the guys you saw at the last shoot.

Timing always plays a part in the attendance. as mentioned previously the Fall Southern is well it's in the fall during the peak of Grouse season here and birds win out over targets, The Rock is on the cusp of bird season but it's still early enough that it doesn't really interfere.

I agree with Craig that most of us attend these events for the fun of attending and not as serious competitors. If there was a way to shoot and enjoy the camaraderie but not for score at a lesser cost more targets might get thrown. A Lewis class system would even things out some as well.

A person can only do so many shoots/trips in a given year unfortunately.

[JLoew]

Just look at the sheer number of shoots. 18 or so years ago when the Vintage cup started, it was the only game in town. Now you can do one of these types of events probably 20+ weekends a year.

[Kensal Rise]

Like many things in modern life, SxS events tend to get caught up in their own minutia. Like scores, gauge classes, special manufacturer events and displays, association displays and shoots, etc.

While there is nothing inherently wrong with these, too little regard is given to FUN. In my view, more low-pressure FUN should be the object of shooting events rather than "scores."

What's more, the SxS community is based largely on age-based intangibles. Like tradition, style, sentimentality, history, appreciation of art and craft... not to mention civility and honor. These elements are in decline these days. And often superseded by competition, structure and complexity of event elements.

And finally, there is AGE. Just look at the fellows who attend these events. They are aging Baby Boomers. And year by year, more of them pass into the Great Shoot in The Sky. And they aren't being replaced.

So, if there is one key void in the SxS crowd it is youth. And by that I mean most anyone under 50. The same is true with most any worthy "gun show" today. Look around. Mostly geezers. And they want to SELL guns. Not buy them.

Combine this with the few remaining Fall seasons left to us Boomers and you get declining attendance.

Just my two cents worth (and possibly over-priced)...

[Researcher]

I hate to mention it, but the group is aging. When I attended my first Vintage Cup at Orvis Sandanona, in 1999, I was 53. Now I'm 70. I don't think the young guys coming in are equaling the old guys passing on.

[Mills]

I predict you will see some younger guys coming in. My collecting and participation in shooting events would be much greater if it were not for raising (and paying for) my kids and family. I think a lot of folks in my generation are in the same boat. The Great Recession didn't help things either.

[Cold Spring]

Just my two cents: I’ve seen these vintage shoots evolve over recent years as more and more NSCA Master and AA class shooters are getting older and less competitive against younger shooters with better eyesight and reflexes. I know many such gents who I used to see at registered tournaments and now are mainly doing SxS shoots; and let's face it, the average Tom, Dick & Harry SxS shooter is going to get his clock cleaned on any of the gauge venues unless he has a very good day and the top shelf shooters have bad ones. I think Craig’s questions are good ones. Why set up a vintage SxS event for those few top level shooters? It seems the majority of SxS shooters are hunters, casual shooters and collectors, and at any given event they will be shooting multiple guns with different stock dimensions and weights. And despite trying to do well when shooting their pet guns along with friends - it's usually at the tail end of the course when they “get into” that particular gun. The same thing happens over again at the next gauge event and with a different gun. $1.00 per target for this majority is way too much. I understand that scorers must be paid and that, in part, adds to what the club must charge for targets. Another cost factor that comes into play at times is that the club may have rented extra traps from firms in that business.

Although I’ve balked at it in the past I think that having a named “scorer” who is also a shooter on each squad, is the way to go. That concept includes having at least four or five shooters per squad, and not all from the same family group. Of course there will still be some cheating by guys who just have to come in with a good score no matter what, but it will be minimized. That would eliminate the expense of paid scorekeepers and if the club hasn’t rented extra traps for the event, the cost/target might be just a nominal increase over the regular rate that applies before or after the SxS event. That increase would pay for the admin expenses of advertising, soliciting vendors, arranging for food, keeping track of the scores, posting, etc. Also for the extra roving help on event days to get broken traps cleared or fixed in a hurry to avoid backups. The club is of course in business and must make a decent profit, and that should happen due to the larger number of shooters drawn to the event to reconnect with and shoot multiple rounds with friends, and to sell/trade/buy with good SxS oriented vendors who have paid for tables.

I also think the club should offer a separate SxS venue for those top shelf shooters who want to participate, that’s scored by referees who have taken the NSCA test. That can be something like a Make a Break, Long Range birds or a tournament style 5-stand. Here those shooters will pay a higher rate/target for those dedicated traps and the scorekeepers. This can include a purse to be paid out to winners.

All told, these are personal thoughts and I certainly value others. We’re all in this together. But like Craig, I am alarmed when I know of many SxS shooters within a few hours of a vintage venue who can easily make a day trip to same but choose not to come. frank

[Bill Murphy]

I think a major part of the problem this year was the conflict between two major side by side shoots. Mike's venue is not familiar to all side by side shooters on the east coast. Hopefully, shooters will become more familiar with "The Rock", and the Vintagers group will be more friendly in their scheduling. I am laid up with several back surgeries or I would have attended Mike's shoot. I hope he did well without my attendance.