11-Gauge Parkers

[Richard B. Hoover]

Carl,

Thanks for the photos. The forfend looks original, and
the stock looks like a later addition. the bore dimensions are 11-gauge, but it is possible that the barrels were honed at an earlier date to remove pitting. The chambers are clearly 12-gauge and your letter will probably list the gun as 12-gauge with 32".stub twist barrels.

Richard

[Carl Baird]

Richard, thanks for your comments. I'm still hoping for the letter to say it was an 11 ga. In either case, I start the refit this weekend with a nice piece of walnut I ordered. Today is my birthday and I'm getting the book.
Carl

[Richard B. Hoover]

Carl,

I would very much like to talk to the man who did work on your barrels. He might know if here was evidence that they had been previously honed before he received them. Also did they measure 0.751" or so at several places along the bores, or only where the pitting was worst. If so the pitting could have made 12-bore barrels into the 11-bore range.

However, if they were originally bored to the .751" dimension, then the gun was made an 11, even if Parker may have chambered it for 12gauge shell and called it a "12". It is well known throughout the world that it is the bore dimension and not the clambering of the gun that determines the gauge size. If you call a lemon a pineapple, it will still not be large and sweet.

But it is clear that the Stock books contain many discrepancies in this area. I have an early lifter D-grade 11- bore Parker ~0.755" with 30" barrels that was chambered for 10 gauge shells and is listed in the Parker Serialization as a 12 gauge with 30" barrels. If the stock book listing were based on the chambers, then this gun should have been listed as a 10 gauge. However there is clear evidence as Austin Hogan has pointed out that Parker over bored many guns in the 7000 to 70,000 range. The question that needs to be answered is --- Why? They clearly knew how to make perfect 12-bore barrels as we heve found in many early guns with .729" bores. Could it be that they did this to reduce the pressure that may have helped reduce failure in lower grade barrels? To answer this, we need to find out if there are any written factory memos, letters or records that may solve the Problem. Austin mentioned a King patent for tooling that caused the barrels to be overbored, but I have not been able to find it. The only one I remember having in my collection of Parker Patents related to a method of encasing the barrels in Plaster of Paris to keep them from vibrating or twisting during the boring proces, but that would not alter the bore diameter. If anyone could upload the King tooling patent, I would very much appreciate it, as I am still trying to understand how to unravel this mystery. Also, it would be interesting to know if thare are many 12-gauge barrels in this serial range that are bored .729", and if so are they also on the lower grade guns.

Please put me in contact with your barrel man, as he might have some answers to these questions.

Yours,

Richard

[Richard B. Hoover]

Carl,

I forgot to say Happy Birthday. The Serialization Book is a perfectly suitable birthday present for you to get for yourself. It is wonderful. I use mine all the time.

Richard

[Carl Baird]

Hi Richard,
Dean Harris...Skeets Gun Shop.
918-456-4749. Located in Oklahoma. Nice guy and very knowledgable about old barrels. I personally don't think it had ever been bored before. Let me know what you find out?
Thanks very much.
Carl

[Howard Levita]

My first time here...SUCCESS...thank you Autumn daze.
You have filled in all the missing info. about my Draper cartridge and how it was reloaded.
Also, I've had this one in my collection for years and only now have been able to document it and the original Wills patent, as well. I could never even find it via Google!
This Forum is obviously a valuable resource...

[Mills]

Well, I bought what appears to be an 11 gauge at the Southern Side by Side this past weekend. The serial number is 14923. A 10 gauge shell does not fit and a 12 gauge shell is very loose. A research letter is going out today, so we will see what it turns up. The gun appears in original condition, except for a replacement hammer. Barrels are 32 inches, bores cleaned up easily, wood in decent but oily condition.

[Mike Franzen]

I remember seeing an 11 ga for sale at the Southern. Kevin McCormick might have had it.

[Carl Baird]

just a general note on my 12 ga. Parker. Richard and I had a discussion about it last year and whether it was an 11 or 12 ga. It measures out as an 11, but the 12 ga. shell snugs in real nice. no sloppiness at all. The gun is just about finished, with a nice new utility grade walnut stock fitted to it. Have a few more coats of linspeed and it's done. Still a question in my mind...and probably Richards, as to why the darn gun has a .751 bore and be lettered as a 12 ga. Dean at skeets, who cleaned my barrels out, thinks it might be because Parker wanted to keep the pressures reasonable and the gun more reliable. My original barrels are stub twist...low man on the totum pole. I think they are beautiful, and I would go after geese with those 32" barrels. I have absolutely no doubt the gun will shoot for years to come. The only problem is the weight of the gun. A tad bit heavy by todays standards. The serial number is in the 44000's and it's a straight hammer gun not a lifter.
Carl

[David Hamilton]

One must be aware that the Parker chambers are tapered. Some shells will not go into the chambers all the way. I have a 10 g Colt with straight chambers and a shell fired in it will not go all the way into my old Parker hammer 10 gauge. I use brass shells for the Parker and fired some in the Colt. They are now dedicatd Colt shells. David