Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums  

Go Back   Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums Non-Parker Specific & General Discussions Shotgun Shell Reloading

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 07-01-2019, 01:35 PM   #11
Member
Harry Collins
PGCA Member
 
Harry Collins's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,574
Thanks: 6,785
Thanked 1,205 Times in 526 Posts

Default

You want to avoid petroleum based products as they will foul the barrels badly when shooting. I take the barrels off the gun and put the breach in a plastic drywall bucket about half full of hot soy water. I wrap a cleaning patch around the wire brush and work it up and down the barrel. This will suck the hot soapy water into the barrels. It doesn't take many strokes to clean the soot out. I follow up with a new patch and a bucket full of just hot water. You're done cleaning. I have a heat gun (you can use the brides hair dryer) and blow down into the barrels with the nipples out. Some dry patches followed by Fluid Film and you're done. I go back an a day or so and run some dry patches through the barrels to make sure everything is still ok. Then another patch soaked in Fluid Film. There are many products on the market to make cleaning sound easy. The hot soapy water method is what I've found the quickest and easiest. Dawn soap works great. If you're into black powder heresy Alliant's Black MZ is a substitute that is virtually non corrosive and will clean with just a few swipes of a water soaked patch.
Harry Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2019, 01:47 PM   #12
Member
Milton C Starr
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 253
Thanks: 64
Thanked 79 Times in 48 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Collins View Post
You want to avoid petroleum based products as they will foul the barrels badly when shooting. I take the barrels off the gun and put the breach in a plastic drywall bucket about half full of hot soy water. I wrap a cleaning patch around the wire brush and work it up and down the barrel. This will suck the hot soapy water into the barrels. It doesn't take many strokes to clean the soot out. I follow up with a new patch and a bucket full of just hot water. You're done cleaning. I have a heat gun (you can use the brides hair dryer) and blow down into the barrels with the nipples out. Some dry patches followed by Fluid Film and you're done. I go back an a day or so and run some dry patches through the barrels to make sure everything is still ok. Then another patch soaked in Fluid Film. There are many products on the market to make cleaning sound easy. The hot soapy water method is what I've found the quickest and easiest. Dawn soap works great. If you're into black powder heresy Alliant's Black MZ is a substitute that is virtually non corrosive and will clean with just a few swipes of a water soaked patch.
I just read that black mz was discontinued . I suppose i will give the hot water and soap a try . I'm ready to get some powder and load her up haha .
Milton C Starr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Milton C Starr For Your Post:
Unread 07-03-2019, 01:23 PM   #13
Member
Paul Harm
Forum Associate

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,595
Thanks: 37
Thanked 636 Times in 343 Posts

Default

It's been so long ago all I remember was I shot 4oz of shot and 400grs of 1F. A square load is by volume, a equal amount of powder and shot. I have two old adjustable powder/shot dippers and the drams is shown on one side and the shot in oz on the other. They don't go to 3 or 4 oz, but one shows at 2oz 4.5 drams and the other 4.75drams of powder. So doubling that we get either 246 or 259 grs of 2f at 4 oz. Say 250 and if I add a bit for 1F, maybe 300. Looks like I was a bit high, but then it was a gun I helped make [ there were 3 of them, each of us did a different job making them ] and the barrels were quite thick. They were side hammer O/Us and they weighed around 20 lbs. The brother in-law who owned a machine shop made the barrels from thick seamless tubing, the neighbor made the locks, triggers, and all the hardware, and it was my job to get the wood and make some guns out of everything. If I shot directly overhead it would push me flat on my back. It wasn't so much of a kick, just a big push. I ended up choking mine by heating the end of the barrels and with a tapered swedge put about .008 in each barrel. At 60yds it would completely cover two newspapers side by side. And the geese coming in to decoys in farm fields dropped dead. I first tried buckshot but couldn't get good patterns so I went to #2 shot. I'd get the nipples out one way or the other. Even if you have to drill them out and re-tap them. A 1/4X28 is a common thread and nipples are easy to find with that size. A believe it's a #7 drill and the tap shouldn't cost you more than $20 and a couple of nipples and you're good to go. Go to Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gun Works for what you need. www.circlefly.com has the wads you'll need. Good luck.
__________________
Paul Harm
Paul Harm is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Paul Harm For Your Post:
Visit Paul Harm's homepage!
Unread 07-03-2019, 01:32 PM   #14
Member
Paul Harm
Forum Associate

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,595
Thanks: 37
Thanked 636 Times in 343 Posts

Default

My dipper shows a 2 7/8 load at 5 1/2drams of powder [ 150grs ]. Harry had some good hints about cleaning. I do as he did except when done with the clean water I run a dry patch down the barrel, then one with WD-40 to remove any moisture, then one with good ol REM-oil.
__________________
Paul Harm
Paul Harm is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Paul Harm For Your Post:
Visit Paul Harm's homepage!
Unread 07-03-2019, 05:40 PM   #15
Member
Milton C Starr
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 253
Thanks: 64
Thanked 79 Times in 48 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Harm View Post
My dipper shows a 2 7/8 load at 5 1/2drams of powder [ 150grs ]. Harry had some good hints about cleaning. I do as he did except when done with the clean water I run a dry patch down the barrel, then one with WD-40 to remove any moisture, then one with good ol REM-oil.
I have been reading alot about this stuff called eezox alot of blackpowder shooters seem to swear by it saying its the best thing they have used .
I do know wd40 is useful because it displaces water at least from what I have read .

I am hoping the proof load is on the barrel flats , the Belgians had a proofing house like the English from what I have seen . I am confused about the make of the barrels some say that london was marked on Belgian barrels to try to upsell their guns . But I have also read that smaller Belgian makers or guild guns would order they barrels from the UK . So who knows ?

I didnt wanted to start another thread but If i buy a 8 gauge cartridge gun is anyone loading blackhorn 209 in theirs ? From the accounts I have read it shoots clean and isnt very corrosive if at all .
Milton C Starr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-03-2019, 05:45 PM   #16
Member
Milton C Starr
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 253
Thanks: 64
Thanked 79 Times in 48 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Harm View Post
It's been so long ago all I remember was I shot 4oz of shot and 400grs of 1F. A square load is by volume, a equal amount of powder and shot. I have two old adjustable powder/shot dippers and the drams is shown on one side and the shot in oz on the other. They don't go to 3 or 4 oz, but one shows at 2oz 4.5 drams and the other 4.75drams of powder. So doubling that we get either 246 or 259 grs of 2f at 4 oz. Say 250 and if I add a bit for 1F, maybe 300. Looks like I was a bit high, but then it was a gun I helped make [ there were 3 of them, each of us did a different job making them ] and the barrels were quite thick. They were side hammer O/Us and they weighed around 20 lbs. The brother in-law who owned a machine shop made the barrels from thick seamless tubing, the neighbor made the locks, triggers, and all the hardware, and it was my job to get the wood and make some guns out of everything. If I shot directly overhead it would push me flat on my back. It wasn't so much of a kick, just a big push. I ended up choking mine by heating the end of the barrels and with a tapered swedge put about .008 in each barrel. At 60yds it would completely cover two newspapers side by side. And the geese coming in to decoys in farm fields dropped dead. I first tried buckshot but couldn't get good patterns so I went to #2 shot. I'd get the nipples out one way or the other. Even if you have to drill them out and re-tap them. A 1/4X28 is a common thread and nipples are easy to find with that size. A believe it's a #7 drill and the tap shouldn't cost you more than $20 and a couple of nipples and you're good to go. Go to Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gun Works for what you need. www.circlefly.com has the wads you'll need. Good luck.
I was tempted to buy a single 4 bore recently I found a company that sells them new made , price is around 2000$ . I was thinking a 36" single 4 bore half stock would be something to own but with a true 4 bore load . 1760grs I believe is just too much recoil for me haha . They use a ed rayl barrel so Im sure its well made .

I was looking at 8 gauge wads on buffalo arms since they also carry blackpowder I figured i would try to buy all the shooting supplies from the same store . I hear if shooting real bp swiss is the way to go .

I was thinking of testing the 8 gauge with a 5 dram load and 3oz of shot to test the barrels but my hunting load will be 2oz if the gun is sound .
Milton C Starr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Milton C Starr For Your Post:
Unread 07-03-2019, 09:36 PM   #17
Member
Researcher
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Dave Noreen's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 620
Thanked 3,350 Times in 1,055 Posts

Default

From 1891 to 1899, Union Metallic Cartridge Co. only offered loaded shells in 10- to 20-gauge. They offered both brass and paper NPEs for 8- and 4- gauge. By 1900 they were offering loaded 8-gauge shells.

In their 1900 catalog Union Metallic Cartridge Co. offered quite a range of 8-gauge loads, bulk smokeless matching the black powder loads.

8-gauge TRAP Shells 1900.png

They must have discovered some of those loads in smokeless were too hot and cut the smokeless loads back by 1901 --

8-gauge TRAP Shells 1901.png

1903 --

1903 UMC 8-gauge Loads.jpeg

1905 --

8-Gauge Trap Shells 1905.png
Dave Noreen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave Noreen For Your Post:
Unread 07-03-2019, 09:48 PM   #18
Member
Milton C Starr
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 253
Thanks: 64
Thanked 79 Times in 48 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Noreen View Post
In their 1900 catalog Union Metallic Cartridge Co. offered quite a range of 8-gauge loads, bulk smokeless matching the black powder loads.

Attachment 74255

They must have discovered some of those loads in smokeless were too hot and cut the smokeless loads back by 1901 --

Attachment 74256

1903 --

Attachment 74257

1905 --

Attachment 74258
I wish 1000 8 gauge shells could be had today for 80$ !
Seems like 2oz is considered a heavy load for the 8 gauge by those listings .
I think a 2oz load should pattern pretty good in the 8 gauge bore .
Most modern shotguns have no idea what a square shot column is or means .

I have seen some data a few years ago showing what the 8 ga industrial slugs were loaded to . I want to say it was a 3oz slug at 2500 fps .Which is crazy when you think about it because thats about 2x the projectile weight of heavy 50 bmg about 150fps slower .

I think when I get my 8 ga cartridge gun next year the bp data should be similair between the 8 ga shell and muzzle loader both using 2oz .

I planned on ordering some cases from RMC next year but seen yesterday they are planning on closing up shop.
Milton C Starr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Milton C Starr For Your Post:
Unread 07-04-2019, 11:23 AM   #19
Member
Harry Collins
PGCA Member
 
Harry Collins's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,574
Thanks: 6,785
Thanked 1,205 Times in 526 Posts

Default

I've heard many compliments on Goex Olde Eynsford black powder. A hundred years ago they found what patterns best and you might find a lighter load than 2oz will pattern better. The Fluid Film I mentioned earlier is a lanolin based and not result in black powder fouling like petroleum based products. https://www.theruststore.com/Fluid-F...l-P179C67.aspx I wipe my bore out with rubbing alcohol prior to loading. When I start to get fouling on the range I will swab the bore with MAP (equal parts of murphy's oil soap, rubbing alcohol, and hydrogen peroxide) followed by rubbing alcohol. MAP will often do as good a job cleaning the barrels as soap and water.
Harry Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-04-2019, 11:29 AM   #20
Member
Milton C Starr
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 253
Thanks: 64
Thanked 79 Times in 48 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Collins View Post
I've heard many compliments on Goex Olde Eynsford black powder. A hundred years ago they found what patterns best and you might find a lighter load than 2oz will pattern better. The Fluid Film I mentioned earlier is a lanolin based and not result in black powder fouling like petroleum based products. https://www.theruststore.com/Fluid-F...l-P179C67.aspx I wipe my bore out with rubbing alcohol prior to loading. When I start to get fouling on the range I will swab the bore with MAP (equal parts of murphy's oil soap, rubbing alcohol, and hydrogen peroxide) followed by rubbing alcohol. MAP will often do as good a job cleaning the barrels as soap and water.
Thanks I will check that out also .

I also wanted to ask has anyone bought and used the ch 8 ga dies for resizing industrial cases ? I have a theory that if the specific case wax/lube ( I will have to look up the brand) used for resizing 50 bmg brass will resize those cases who are blown way out of spec from m2 chambers . I think that particular case lube would work just as well on resizing industrial cases .
Milton C Starr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2019, Parkerguns.org
Copyright 2004 Design par Megatekno
- 2008 style update 3.7 avec l'autorisation de son auteur par Stradfred.