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Unread 12-31-2020, 05:21 PM   #11
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The Remington Hammerless Doubles had three styles of barrel lugs over time. Some of the early guns had the typical Purdey double under-bolts as my 1895 vintage BE-Grade --

101315 BE-Grade 12-ga 07.jpg

Charles Semmer in his book Remington Double Shotguns called these "bridge frame guns."

Most had the web between the lugs making the forward bite into two smaller bites --

112429 01 EEO-Grade, 16-gauge, 30-inch.jpg

Some of the late K-quality guns eliminated the forward bite altogether. My 1909 vintage KE-Grade 16-gauge --

Q380786 05 single barrel lug.jpg

I have recorded an 1898 vintage 10-gauge with this style lug and Remington Steel barrels, making it an AER-grade, which I suspect was rebarreled at some point in time.
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Unread 01-01-2021, 09:21 PM   #12
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Here are the List Prices from the second 1901 Remington Arms Co. catalog --

K - $35.00
KED - $45.00
A - & AR - $45.00
AE - & AER- $50.00
AO - $60.00
AEO - $65.00
B - $60.00
BO - $75.00
BE - $65.00
BEO - $80.00
C - & CO - $90.00
CE - & CEO - $95.00
D - & DO - $150.00
DE - & DEO - $155.00
E - & EO - $225.00
EE - & EEO - $230.00

In 1902 Remington Arms Co. added their Remington Special at $750.00

In the 1901 Parker Bros. catalog that introduces ejectors (which Remington had from 1894 ) the list prices are --

VH - $50.00
VHE - $75.00
PH - $65.00
PHE - $90.00
GH - $80.00
GHE - $105.00
DH - $100.00
DHE - $125.00
CH - $150.00
CHE - $175.00
BH - $200.00
BHE - $225.00
AH - $300.00
AHE - $325.00
AAH - $400.00
AAHE - $425.00
A1 Special - $500
A1 Special Ejector - $525

Parker Bros. ejectors cost five times more than Remington ejectors!
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Unread 01-01-2021, 09:36 PM   #13
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Interesting! It looks like the upgrade to ejectors was $25 for Parker and $5 for Remington. Anyone have thoughts as to why Parker ejectors cost so much more? It seems like in the middle grades a CEO was close to a GHE in price. It sure seems like middle grade Remingtons are scarcer on the online sites compared to Parkers. I see a lot more GH/GHEs offered for sale than CE/CEOs. By the way, is that an EEO in the middle picture of your previous post?
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Unread 01-01-2021, 11:40 PM   #14
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There were some differences in the lines. Remington never offered one of their Remington Hammerless Doubles with Twist barrels. From the lowest grade they started with two-stripe Damascus barrels. Remington also didn't go in for the variety of fanciful names for their steel barrels. Remington only made some 41194 of their "graded guns" A- to EEO-Grade (aka Model 1894) but they made 98508 of their K-quality guns (aka Model 1900), their Trojan equivalent, and it was offered with ejectors and a choice of barrel material. In the first three years of production the Remington ejector guns were much more expensive, $22.50 extra. By 1897 Remington must have devised the right jigs and fixtures to drop the price of ejectors to $5 extra. 1897 was a pivotal year, by the April catalog Remington introduced their steel barrels and by the October catalog they added the 16-gauge to the previously offered 10- and 12-gauges.

When Parker Bros. introduced their hammerless double, the lowest grade it was offered in was Grade 2, the $80 Quality GH or $85 Quality EH in 10-gauge. Remington didn't charge extra for a 10-gauge in their lower grades as the Brothers P did.

In their 17 years of hammerless double gun production Remington Arms Co. produced 139702 hammerless doubles and during that time they also produced 105382 hammer doubles, or more guns than Parker produced from 1866 to 1942.

The gun in the middle picture above is an EEO-Grade, not mine sad to say.
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Unread 01-02-2021, 09:49 AM   #15
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The RAS/Model 11 must have been the death knoll for the Remington SxS's.
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Unread 01-02-2021, 12:53 PM   #16
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That is certainly the truth Craig. Remington was on a roll in 1907, while our man Ansley was struggling to get the A.H. Fox Gun Co. going in their new digs on North 18th Street at Windrim Avenue. For the first part of the year Remington flooded the sporting press with ads hailing their pro William Heer's high average for 1906 with a pair of their hammerless doubles --

The Gun Behind the Man, The American Field, Mar. 2, 1907.jpg

Then in June, J.J. Blanks won the big one with the Remington Autoloading Shotgun --

1907 GAH Winner The American Field, June 29, 1907.jpg

1907 GAH Winner, J.J. Blanks, The American Field, June 29, 1907.jpeg

Then Fred Harlow did it again with the RAS in 1908.

In February 1910 Remington closed a deal with Norvell Shapliegh Hardware Co. of St Louis to sell them their entire inventory of break-action guns and Remington went into the future with their John M. Browning designed autoloader and their John D. Pedersen designed pump which W.E. Phillips used to win the 1912 GAH.
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Unread 01-02-2021, 08:05 PM   #17
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The early RAS guns in grade 5 and 6 were beautifully engraved, but they get little respect from the collector community. I hate to admit it but from a marketing standpoint Remington made the correct choice, Fox, Parker, Lefever and Smith were all destined for the dustpan of history after JM Browning designed the RAS.
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Unread 01-02-2021, 09:47 PM   #18
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Many of the Remington 1894s and even 1900s you will find are fitted with ejectors. The low price adder explains it.
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Unread 01-02-2021, 11:07 PM   #19
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I kind of wonder about that about the M11 being the end of doubles. Even Remington brought out the 32 and bought Parker within 25 years of the decision to discontinue doubles. Remington probably actually lost tens of thousands of sales by this decision. There was the depression, of course. Yet many makers sold a lot of doubles in competition with the autos and pumps in the interwar period, despite the depression. Didn't LC Smith have robust sales even after WW II? Stevens probably sold more doubles after WW II than before WW II. For practical hunting guns I think doubles are the best option, especially because repeaters are plugged at three anyway. I wonder if American gunmakers, besides Stevens missed a chance to keep selling doubles after WW II.
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Unread 01-02-2021, 11:57 PM   #20
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From its introduction in 1905 to WW-II Remington produced half a million 12-gauge RAS/Model 11s plus another 15500 Sportsman before they started serial numbering them along with the Model 11s. Meanwhile Parker Bros. produced about 112000 guns. Winchester produced their first million Model 12s along with several hundred thousand Model 97s. All those Fox Model B and Stevens doubles Savage produced after WW-II are a drop in the bucket when compared with the many millions of Remington Model 870s, Model 11-48/Sportsman-48, Sportsman-58 and Model 1100 autoloaders.
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