Square Loads = Better Performance?

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Daryl Corona

Same here Pete. Being a handloader like you I've gone to 3/4oz. loads in 12, 16, 20 and of course 28 and have been very pleased at the performance on birds and clays. Are they for everyone? Probably not because of the mindset that exists in the American shooter; you know... bigger is better. I believe that the loads that Parker suggested for the various gauges were at a time when they needed more shot in a load to perform on the pattern plate. The components available to us now are far superior and lighter loads perform so efficiently especially with tight chokes.
A few years back at Hausmann's I was talking with Morris Baker of RST fame and we were talking light loads. He reached into his pocket and handed me a few of his newest loads, 3/4oz 12 ga. which were in the development stage at that time. I reached into my vest and handed him a couple of my 3/4oz. 12 ga. loads which were also in development. Coincidence I guess but his claim was that he has'nt found a target that he could'nt break with it. I agree.

Very interesting. I read in some discussions regarding the physics of load columns. Seems it was understood that taller load shot columns on softer lead shot caused more shot deformity at hence more shot stringing. Which suggests it might not even be a square load issue but a mass issue, hence why 28 gauge even at 3/4 oz load is suppose to perform extremely well.

Agree with the US issue to solve certain problems, which obviously has mixed results. I love the old IBM commercial

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZmHDEa0Y20

[Kirk Mckinney]

Newbie here. So I see according to the discussion and articles. It’s best to shoot magnum shot because it’s harder. Should one stay away from reclaimed shot ??? Since you really have no ideal what your getting and since it’s been shot once many pellets maybe already deformed before your shoot it ??? Thanks

[Southpaw]

Kirk I am no expert but will share what I have learned. Depending on how you want to employ magnum shot in the field or at that range is the difference and how it is loaded n the shell. Cost/benefit variable beyond performance maybe a factor as well. Yes in theory and reality hard shot deforms less and is said to perform better with regards to pattern and shot string management. Same could be said for steel shot but I hate that crap and steer clear of it.

I have no experience at all with reclaimed shot so not much help there.

[Paul Harm]

At skeet ranges, 22yds or so, reclaimed shot doesn't hurt, for anything else I'd reload the magnum shot. I also shoot 3/4oz in the 12ga. The shorter the shot column with lead shot, the less deformation the back shot will have. There's less weight pushing against it. Also better patterns because more shot is staying round. I shot 1oz in the 10ga, and it smokes targets at any range. Well, at least out to 45yds or so, the farthest we throw birds. The shell manufactures for some reason boost the velocity when they go to lighter loads. Why they think most shooters can tell the difference in 1200 or 1300fps is be one me. A lot of guys on another reloading forum go to 1300fps when loading 3/4oz in the 12ga to reduce "hot core" type of patterns. I've found 3/4oz in a IC choked gun will break birds nice out to 40yds. A 12 bore is .729 and 1 1/8oz is .779 high, 1oz/.681, 7/8oz/.607, and 3/4oz/.52 high. So, 1oz and less is better than even the " sq. load ". Think how short the string and how less shot is deformed with a 3/4oz load in a 12ga. When FITASC went from 1 1/4oz to 1oz loads everyone thought scores would take a dive. They didn't, they stayed the same. People think 3/4oz in a 28ga gives such great patterns. Well, think how great they are in a 12 - much shorter shot column. JMHO's.

[Bruce Day]

Average skeet target scores decrease with decreasing bore diameter using standard loads. While my favorite gauge is the 16 it is an unsupported myth that there is something magical or unforeseen about the performance or the 16, 28 or any other gauge. It’s just more sporting magazine writer talk.

The subgauges may pattern good enough but they do not pattern as well or with the same density as a 12. The lesser carrying weight and lower moment of inertia of a subgauge gun may for many outweigh the small disadvantage of lesser pattern density. It does for me.

[Southpaw]

Bruce there maybe something in what you say regarding discussions on 16 and 28 gauges. Sportswriters are like shock jocks on the radio creating controversy. I mean how much has been written about which is the best caliber and round. But it sells magazines and guns. There may or may not be anything to it, but maybe there is? I think Brister in his demonstrations alluded to it, but have not read his stuff thoroughly but will. Like any scientific experiment it needs to be corroborated by someone else to reproduce his findings and I have not seen something that clearly corroborates his work to date. Maybe because people think it has minimal impact to their shooting.

I think Daryl may have something though, with all things being relatively equal across all gauges, how does a 3/4 ounce load perform with pattern density and management of shot stringing. Obviously all those loads are going to have different shot column dimensions in the cartridges and hopefully have same style wads and shot cups. That might be an interesting test about shape or squaring of loads has a shred of correlation.

I think though most evidence indicates that patterns, shot stringing and shot columns (square load) are not clearly understood as to a correlation between the two or if it even exists. Bruce I think you alluded to this as well earlier.

Anyway not trying to create a debate, or promote one gauge or load over another, just pondering about it all. What I have learned is that it really is not that big a deal for stationary or linear moving targets, its the crossing targets or game that might have most regard to the issue.

[Kirk Mckinney]

Thanks Todd for the info. Seeing that you only save a couple dollars by buying reclaimed shot. I think I will just stick with new magnum shot. I have always liked light loads anyway so I should be set. Although when I play golf and the wind is blowing I have it to blame for my bad game. Lol. Reclaimed shot may give me a excuse for poor shooting but I guess I will just have to practice and practice. In golf they say practice doesn’t make you perfect it onlymakes permanent. Only perfect technique practiced makes perfect. Maybe I should get a lesson or two. Or get some tips from some accomplished shooters at the range. Paul I have 25 pounds of reclaimed now I will shoot it up and then the magnum and see. Have a good day.

[Southpaw]

Only perfect technique practiced makes perfect. Maybe I should get a lesson or two. Or get some tips from some accomplished shooters at the range.

Kirk I got a PHD in the school of hard knocks when it comes to shooting at targets and missing game. But I got better with trial and error without much coaching. I posted about my experience before on forum but a few years back sort of lucked into a weekend of hunting and shooting with an Orvis shooting instructor by the name of Todd Rogers. He was part of a group that with Orvis they put out a book Guide to Gunfitting. Their premise though before even attempting a gunfit you should have proper fundamentals in shooting so first half of that book was dedicated to proper shotgun shooting technique. It mostly teaches and preaches on instinctual shooting methods. Here is a link.
https://www.amazon.com/Orvis-Guide-G.../dp/1592282164

I am firm believer in self help on this and if you want to shoot better you should read at least first part of book and then practice on the footwork, gunmount and so forth. Anyway I had Todd Rogers standing behind me a watched me shoot and bust 25 straightaway targets and he said good job but your doing it wrong. He broke it down for over two days and then when I went and read the book light really came on. I taught my two boys how to shoot off my experience and used that book as basis and they are pretty good shots. There are a few other good books on it but this one is fairly short and to the point and throws a lot out. Maybe even good to go back and read some sections to remind yourself when you start doing things wrong.

[Kirk Mckinney]

Great. I certainly will read it several times probably. Nothing like starting off on the right foot. Thanks you very much. It won’t go to waste. Have a great week.

[Kirk Mckinney]

Todd
I ordered that book. found a copy on amazon from a libary $7.95....but I also saw one Orvis guide to beginners to wing shooting...do you know anything about that one....I was wondering if it covered the same info? It appears to be from the same guy Tom Deck Thanks