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Unread 10-04-2019, 06:30 PM   #11
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Garth Gustafson
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Sporting Classics Daily re-published that Damascus article by Tom Keer. It’s well worth signing up for and it’s free so I don’t think they’d mind if I shared it.

https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/da...safe-to-shoot/
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Unread 10-13-2019, 06:31 PM   #12
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What is a “low compression “ shell?

I have seen the phrase “low pressure” shell ( cartridge) but writers leave the definition to the reader without stating a number or justifying the number. Or sometimes state a pressure number from 2 1/2” British cartridges and thin walled British guns for stouter Parker guns.
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Unread 11-03-2019, 02:11 PM   #13
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I have read multiple times that the manufacturing of Damascus bbls ceased for the most part due to the costs involved in production. Between the raw materials and the labor involved fluid steel bbls were much more economical therefore the preferred bbl type.

As long as the bbls are sound and the wall thickness good, no reason we can't/won't/don't shoot modern 2 3/4" shells in the 2 5/8" chambers. Plenty of info/research out there regarding using 2 3/4" shells in 2 1/2" and 2 5/8" chambers. Don't use snotty game loads or "Super Crusher" speed shells and you'll be fine. Personally, I shoot factory RST, factory Fiocchi, factory Clever and reloaded RST shells. Clays break and game birds go in the bag.
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Unread 11-03-2019, 03:25 PM   #14
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Drew Hause
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The article, like most written since the 30s is more "somebody said", and we now KNOW what the gun makers said regarding Smokeless Powder in pattern welded barrels, we KNOW the "rough forged tubes" were proved in Belgium and the finished barrels were proved by the U.S. gun maker, we KNOW what loads were recommended by the gun makers, and we KNOW the pressures of those loads. And I have no idea where the "keep the pressures below 8000 psi" came from.

This is what Parker Bros. said in 1902: "All are bored for Nitro or Black powder"



and what Parker said regarding proving the finished gun; courtesy of Jeff Kuss




Period publication documented c. 1895 to pre-1920s Smokeless Powder load pressures:
12g
1 1/8 oz. 3 Dram Equivalent of BULK Smokeless was 6000 - 8000 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 Dr. Eq. of DENSE Smokeless was 8,500 - 10,000 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless was about 8500 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was 9500 - 10,500 psi.
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless was about 11,500 psi
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was 12,500 psi

16g
1 oz. 2 1/2 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless (1165 fps) was about 7000 psi;
2 3/4 Dr. Eq. (1220 fps) about 8500 psi.

20g reported pressures varied significantly
7/8 oz. 2 1/2 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless was 8000-10,000 psi.
7/8 oz. 2 1/2 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was 11,000 - 12,000 psi.

This of course has nothing to do with the effect of recoil on maybe 120 year old wood.
And bad things happen to barrels in 120 years so it would be irresponsible to do nothing to evaluate the integrity of pattern welded OR fluid steel barrels.

Last edited by Drew Hause; 11-03-2019 at 03:58 PM..
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Unread 11-03-2019, 04:18 PM   #15
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I agree with your comment about the effect of recoil on wood. That is the main concern I have with shooting these great guns. THX Drew!
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Unread 11-03-2019, 05:23 PM   #16
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Amen Drew!
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Unread 11-03-2019, 05:33 PM   #17
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Another point worth repeating.
John Brindle, The Double Gun Journal, “Black Powder & Smokeless, Damascus & Steel”; Volume 5, Issue 3, 1994, “Some Modern Fallacies Part 5”:
"The pressures produced in the breechloader by black powder, as black powder was actually loaded at the end of the 19th century, were not significantly lower than those given by smokeless (then often termed “semi-smokeless”) powders developed as a substitute for, and an improvement on, black powder."

From a 1895 study published in The Field for 1 1/8 oz. 3 Dr. Eq. @ 1222 fps, converted to psi with Burrard's formula
72 gr. Curtis & Harvey's No. 2 T.S. (somewhat similar to FFFg) = 3.2 Tons = 9,632 psi
82 Gr C&H No. 4 T.S. (similar to FFg) = 2.26 Tons = 6,474 psi
84 gr. C&H No. 6 T.S. (similar to Fg) = 2.1 Tons = 5,936 psi
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Unread 11-03-2019, 07:51 PM   #18
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[QUOTE=Mike Koneski;284525]I have read multiple times that the manufacturing of Damascus bbls ceased for the most part due to the costs involved in production. Between the raw materials and the labor involved fluid steel bbls were much more economical therefore the preferred bbl type.

Another contributing factor was World War 1. Liege, Belgium was arguably the hub of Damascus barrel manufacturing. The Germans overran Belgium and occupied Liege in August 1914. It would be four years before they left and five years before the Treaty of Versailles formally ended the war. Damascus barrel manufacturing production was never the same again.
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Unread 11-03-2019, 09:08 PM   #19
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Correct
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Unread Yesterday, 08:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Hause View Post
Finally picked up the Sept/Oct Sporting Classics

Steve Culver is in Meriden, KANSAS
www.culverart.com

The cover by J.F. Kernan is one of my favorites

Drew: When I first saw this for an instant I could feel the warmth and softness of those setters. Great Picture.
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