New Member, old family gun, would love information...

[Steve Anthony]

Hello. Thank you for a great forum! I have my great grandfather's Parker Brothers 12 gauge side-by-side, serial number 100645. It's hammerless with 30" Vulcan Steel barrels, has ejectors and a pistol grip stock. On the water table, it has a V above the serial number. It also has 645 stamped in the bottom of the well closest to the firing pin wall, for lack of the correct term. On the barrel flats, it shows a frame size of 2 (is there a specific measurement?), barrel weight of 4 with a raised 2 (what units?), has a K with a small f (perhaps) on the fore end of the flats, and has a + sign under each barrel. It is missing the butt plate. As rumor has it, my great grandfather was a small man so he may have shortened the stock. It has simple engravings that are not too intricate, and looks exactly like the bottom sketch of the Grade 1 and Grade 0 catalog pages.

I'm trying to find out as much information so I can to surprise my dad.

From limited research, I found it was made in 1901. The bore has slight pitting in a few places. I know that without it being inspected by a competent gunsmith there's no way to determine if it is safe to fire. Any general thoughts though?

I don't know how to comment on the finish of the barrels as far as bluing. I have no frame of reference or experience. Same for the wood. The checkering is worn around the pistol grip and a little on the fore end and the wood is on the dark side in general. How can I determine if it is a Grade 0 or 1?

Is this considered a VH, the H meaning hammerless? What does the frame size of 2 mean? Is the weight for the barrels in pounds? I haven't been able to find out about the K f marking on the flats, nor the + signs under each barrel.

As the butt plate is missing, I'm intrigued if the stock has been shortened. What should be the measurement of an intact stock not including the butt plate? I measured 8" from just behind the pistol grip to the toe, 8 7/16" inches from the front edge of the comb to the heel, and 4 15/16" from the heel to the toe.

Are there any ballpark values available?

I know that these are a lot of questions for a newbie but I'm diving right in and truly appreciate any input. I have pictures of all the notations above, except for a good bore shot.

Again, thank you very much for any input!

[Dennis]

Steve welcome aboard. It sounds like you have a VH gun indicated by the Vulcan barrels and the V on the water table. It is a very common gun but well worth having. All Parker Brothers shotguns were built with quality. The higher grades have more ornamentation but don't shoot any better than your VH grade. It is hard to give any value to the gun without seeing some pretty detailed photos of the stock, barrels, markings all over etc. The Parker shotguns were made with different frame sizes depending on the gauge and the weight of the gun requested by the buyer. A 2 frame is very common and would have probably been used by a waterfowl hunter. If interested you could have the chokes measured by a competent gunsmith. The 4-2 is the weight of the unstruck barrels in pounds. Generally speaking the stock should measure around 14 1/2 inches measured from the front trigger to the middle of the butt stock. It could be 13 1/2 inches or possibly 15 inches but the first figure is common. I sure can't tell you the gun is safe to fire but a gunsmith can look at it. My guess is that the gun is safe to fire but I don't want you to rely on my word to fire it. If you do there is a company, RSTshells.com that offers shotshells specifically made for older guns. If you decide to shoot the gun I would suggest light loads for it due to its age. When you ask for value without giving any specifics it is like saying you have a 63 Dodge; how much is it worth. If your gun is totally original, unfired and still in the box it will be worth thousands of dollars. If your gun has pitted barrels, shortened stock with the butt plate missing, little bluing and a lot of stock wear in the checkering (from your letter) it may be worth a few hundred dollars. I think it is great you are getting some information for your dad. Old shotguns or any firearms that are in a family are valuable keepsakes no matter the monetary value. Before my dad passed away he had told us many times he used to own Colt Single Action Army revolvers, shotguns and some fine rifles. Unfortunately he got rid of them all before I was born. How great it would have been to have inherited something like that from him. I am sure others will give their opinions as well and most here are far more knowledgeable than I am. Good luck with the gun. It sounds like a fine old piece and a great bit of family history.

Dennis

[nid-28]

Dennis--you did a fine job. Great response!!

[Dennis]

Thank you sir. I appreciate the feedback.

[Steve Anthony]

Dennis, THANK YOU so much for such a great response. Very well said about how old shotguns or any firearms that are in a family are valuable keepsakes no matter the monetary value. You're absolutely correct! I, too, wish that you could have received some of those guns from your dad that you talked about, and I thank you for sharing those personal sentiments.

Here are a few pics.

I can't tell how much bluing is left, although it doesn't look like much to my untrained eye.

What is the "645" in the first well of the water table?

What about the "Kf" and "+" signs under each barrel on the barrel flats?

You can see that the checkering on the pistol grip is very worn. I'm not sure how the condition of the fore end would be rated.

And finally the stock. It looks like not only was the butt plate remove, but it was shortened. I'll measure it as you instructed. Thank you for the measurements I could expect to find. There's been a slip-on rubber sleeve and pad on the end of the stock since I was born, where the wood is lightest.

I'm going to have a gunsmith check the chokes, the slight pitting of the barrels, and determine if it is safe to fire. Thanks Dennis, too, for the tip regarding RSTshells.com. I would only fire it to simply say that I did, as may dad has, as my grandfather has, and as my great grandfather has.

Dennis, I laughed out loud when you commented about my asking value is like saying I have a '63 Dodge. True, and a classic newbie move. Thank you for being kind.

Anyway, any additional information would be greatly appreciated. Again, thank you Dennis for taking the time to welcome me and provide me with information that I value VERY much.

[Dean Romig]

Steve,

Parker Bros. stamped most of the larger parts of a gun with the last three digits of the serial number so that anyone handling those parts would know they had been hand-fitted to a particular frame. Yours being 100645 the "645" is the three digit stamp you should see on most major parts.

The Kf is the stamp of Charles A. King, Superintendant of the Parker Gun Works up until 1910 when his son Walter King succeded him.

[Steve Anthony]

Dean, thank you so much for the information regarding the "645" and "Kf" markings. I appreciate your input as I try to find out more about this gun. Thank you!

[Bill Murphy]

Make sure the stock repair has made the stock tight when wiggled side to side and up and down. There appears to be some room between wood and metal surfaces at the top tang, indicating possible looseness. Don't fire it until that is taken care of. By the way, the "ejectors" you describe are actually just one "extractor". Ejectors are split and spring operated which is not the case with your gun. Good luck with your new gun.

[Steve Anthony]

Thank you Bill for your observation regarding the stock and your clarification of the extractor. The stock doesn't feel loose in any direction but I see what you're saying about the space between the wood and the metal surfaces at the top tang. I'll have that looked into in more detail as well. Thank you Bill.

[wayne goerres]

the 4.2 is in lbs. It is the struck barrel weight before finishing. You probable have about a 7 1/2 to 8 lbs parker. I could be wrong but it looks like your gun has been cold blued at some point in time. Hurts the value but it wont stop it from being a shooter.