10 ga. choke size

[Don Carter]

Maybe some one can help me.
As some my know I bought a 10 ga lifter a short time ago. Dated 1878.
I'm trying to find out what it is choked at.
Both bore seem to mike out at .800.
Cyl.,mod.,full? I have nothing to go by.

Thank you. Don

[Don Kaas]

The standard bore size for 10 ga is .775. Many of my early Parker hammerguns in 10ga often seem to have circa .790 bores. As for choke, the sizes are very much like 12 ga with .040 being considered full choke. If the bores of your gun are .800 at the muzzles, I suspect you have no choke...depending on frame size if your gun indeed has .800" bores, I'd check barrel wall thickness. Many of these old guns were bored a number of times and they are often seen with larger bores in the first 12"-18" in front of the breech while having slightly smaller bores to the muzzles do to amateur barrel work to remove pits (often just prior to sale)

[Don Carter]

Thanks Don.
I measured the barrels again and they are .800.
There is a fair amount of pitting in the barrels so if they were ever rebored you would never know it. The frame is a 02 from what I can see. And the chambers 2 5/8".
I have no way of measuring the wall thickness. So
Thanks Don

[Don Kaas]

I have owned Parkers that had "the bores cleaned" by the factory atleast 2 times and letter as such. Remeber many of thes lifters were used hard and put away wet especially by their 2nd and 3rd owners. If the bores are .800" and there is heavy pitting, I urge you to have the walls measured prior to using the gun. Just MHO. Best of luck

[peter holden]

While i agree that .775 is the norm for a 10g i dont agree that .40 thou is full choke.
full choke is a follows .040 12g
.050 10g
.060 8g
.080 4g
peter.

[Don Carter]

Thanks for the reply but I don't understand these other #no.
.040 12g
.050 10g
.060 8g
.080 4g
Could you explain?
Don

[Austin W Hogan]

Ten gauge was more popular and common in North American than the No 12, when Parker production began in the 1870's. A popular upland load at the time was 1 ounce of small shot over 4 1/2 to 5 drams of black. Most trap (live bird) shooters in the US ( including Bogardus) favored the No 10, but some clubs restricted trap gun weight, not gauge at the time according to Bogardus' book. "Light tens" of 7 3/4 to 8 1/4 pounds remained popular through about s/n 75000. Most of these were on the two frame, but at least 1 one frame 10 is known.
A bore of .800 or larger is relatively common if not dominate in lifter Parkers. Bogardus recommended loading the ten with No 8 wads. One ounce of shot and 5 drams in a 2 5/8 No 10 case had room for a good wad column.
I had a copy of Parker Order book 2 for study for a Parker Pages article; this covered the mid thousands s/n range, but many guns in the low thousands (2, 3, 4000) were returned or remained unsold to be listed in this book. Almost every page had entries requesting barrel replacement or "emery out barrels". It appears "emery out barrels" means just that; try to remove pits with emery. Pitting was an every day occurance when black powder and mercuric primers were used.
A barrel wall thickness measurement is a good idea ( see Bob Foege's letter in the Spring Parker Pages) Remember that 1/3 of the barrel cannot be measured, and 5000 measurements per inch are required to find ALL pits of .010 diameter. A hundred years is enough time for a pit to etch its way through a fairly thick bore. Visible pin holes are often detected when barrels are disassembled for repair.

"Light Tens" are an interesting collecting niche.

Best, Austin

[George Blair]

Just for grins, go to colonialarms.com and click on choke specs. George

[Austin W Hogan]

It is not certain when the "nut borer" was first used to cut Parker chokes. This device was used from sometime in the 4 digit serial range until production ceased in Meriden. When production resumed in Ilion, Remington barrels were choked with fixed reamers.

The nut borer was used to ream chokes "to deliver" a selected pattern density. I have Bil Furnish bore measurements on hand. The ten ga guns with s/n less than 1000 have Birmingham proof and no choke. 1775 is not noted as to proof, but has no choke. 2299 is a B grade with .796 bore and .782 muzzle. s/n 5093 is an A grade with .795 bore and .777 muzzle. The smallest bore lifter 10 bore listed is 14374 with .785 bore and .763 muzzle.

I have 3297 which is a 7 lb 14 oz trap gun, $135 grade; bore .783; muzzle .772. These barrels are very thin to make the less than 8 pounds overall. S/n 6197 is a heavy T0 grade; bore .800+ muzzles.765. The latest ten which I have is an NH 140751 which is .780 x .754 both sides. The latest hammer ten is 55036, .794 x .765 both sides.

The earliest letter I have with a pattern count is 3920.

Best, Austin

[Don Carter]

Thank you Austin. That was interesting. This gun is in the 13,000 s/n range.
I will have to get the barrel walls measured even though the gun smith I bought the gun from said it was fine to shoot black powder loads.

George. I undersatnd what the #no's mean now. Thank you

Don