"Back on Face" Problems

[Eldon Goddard]

I have been attempting to put my Ithaca flues back on face. I had my friend tig weld the hook and it was going well till I started on the breech face got most of it to contact using my oil lamp and files, but then I noticed that it was begining to come loose... so I must have taken to much off the face. I think my problem was that I did not get enough contact on the hook before I started working on the breach face. Long story short I get to start all over again. Calling my welder friend tonight. I would like to say to all the gunsmiths on this forum that whatever you are getting paid to put a gun back on face it is not enough. It is alot of work and I have the black hands to prove it.

[ch]

Eldon, Have you got a gunsmith giving you help? Not sure but I don't think the hook is perfectly round. I've herd of people doing it and getting there gun stuck shut. Just stuff rolling around in my finite mind to ponder. Are you using candle to black the lug? GOOD LUCK

[Ed Blake]

That's why the Brownells shim stock and soft solder on the hook is so easy and effective. Very little fitting and filing.

[Harry Collins]

There is a video on YouTube of putting a Parker back on face. It shows wedling and smoke and filing. There was no need to file at all. That had been done at Parker years ago. All that was needed was to dress down the weld unless I am missing something.

Sorry about your bad luck. I hope you get her back on face.

Harry

[Kensal Rise]

Eldon:
I'm sorry for you. And the gun. Now, all you can do is rebuild the hook and refit. BTW... one should NEVER be filing on the "breech face" (standing breech) of such a gun for any reason.

It must be clear to you by now that certain jobs are a bit beyond the reach of the average gun hobbyist. Even through they seem simple at first. This is not a criticism. Just a sad truth that I had to learn myself... the hard way.

Good luck.

Best, Kensal

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Eldon Goddard

.....started on the breech face got most of it to contact using my oil lamp and files, but then I noticed that it was begining to come loose...

xxxx

[Cold Spring]

I've rejointed a number of guns, and I concur that the back ends of the barrel breeches should never be filed, They were contact fitted when the gun left the factory, and there's no need to try filing them to get new contact with the standing breech. When re-doing a barrel hook by welding, the EXACT original X and Y axes must be maintained. Even a .002" difference in location in either axis will make a huge difference on the fit of the barrels against the standing breech. And a compound error (both axes off center) is a MAJOR problem. Trying to do it without a witness location (pre-welding) and with files is just asking for big trouble. I do it on a vertical mill equipped with a digital readout (DRO). The hook axis center is located before welding, barrel removed for welding, then replaced on the holding fixture on the mill, with adjustment made using the DRO for the off-face dimension plus a thou or two for fitting. New hook radius is cut with an end mill ground to the exact diameter of the hinge pin. Readers please note I only work on my own guns, no exceptions. I am not posting this to solicit work.

It's just my opinion but soldering or gluing a shim to the hook radius may apparently get the barrels back on face but it usually results in "point contact" at the top and bottom of the shim because the hook radius is then smaller than the hinge pin diameter. The hook radius is usually not worn uniformly round. Short term fix only.

All that doesn't help you now with the Flues. Best you might do IMO is to reweld and just work the hook radius only, being careful not to make its diameter any larger than the hinge pin. That can easily happen and you'll end up with very limited bearing against the hinge pin. Work very-very slowly while watching what's happening with the barrel contact. Once you get it very close (touching at the bottom of the barrels, maybe .001" off face at the top) you can soot fit the back end of the barrels which you said you've already filed. Keep in mind that will likely tighten the headspace and the rim cuts will probably have to be redone with a rim cutter. One last tip, the oil lamp soot tends to build up and it should be wiped off each and every time you check for fit, then resooted. Otherwise you'll get erroneous readings of " good fit" because the soot is so thick.

[Eldon Goddard]

Thanks for all the info guys. I did not file on the breech face. I just sanded down the barrel faces very lightly to get it to contact the breech face. I bought the gun for the specific purpose to learn how to fix it. I figured that you had to clean it after smoking it but now i know for sure. The pin should be round as my first attempt at fixing it was to replace the hinge pin, only to find that the hook was to worn down even to contact the new pin, so I decided to weld the hook. I have never tried this before so I did not expect to get it right the first time.

[charlie cleveland]

one things for sure your not affraid to takle a bad problem...i think you will win in the end and be ready to use that gun... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

How in the world did you manage to replace the pin? Where did you get a pin the same diameter as the original? When you found that the original pin was still fairly round, why did you replace it with another pin?