11-Gauge Parkers

[Richard B. Hoover]

Dave,

I found the Video about how to attach a file, so I will try to send my first pictures to the forum as the Patent for your spectacular shell.

[Richard B. Hoover]

Dave,

I see you uploaded it as a .pdf, which seems to be easier to read than the two jpgs I sent.

That is a very interesting shell. It was from the very early days, when shells were still difficult to buy in many parts of the country.

Richard

[Bindlestiff]

Only five years later and we get the beginning of modern shot shell reloading, how fast it all changes.

[Paul Stafford III]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kuss

I think this is what you are looking for.

Thanks for sharing! I have a pair of Parker 12Ga brass. Just love them!

[Bindlestiff]

Austin asked me to post these two documents to this thread. The first is a collection on documents discussing chamber size. The second is a list of Parker 11 ga. guns as you will find in the Parker Gun Identification & Serialization book.

[Austin W Hogan]

Thank you, Robin. Imagine! Polishing a 12 bore to .730 in to save it! That would be as bad as fixing a Rolls with a Bentley washer!

Best, Austin

[Richard B. Hoover]

Robin,

This 1882 article from Stonehenge in The Field should be viewed with caution. It appears to contains a number of errors. Proof testing of gun barrels in Europe began sometime in the fifteenth century and was well established in St. Etienne, France, Liege, Belgium and Ferlach, Austria. The second charter for London Gunmakers Company was granted in 1672 and gave powers for searching, proving and marking gun barrels. The Scale of Proof for Smooth Bore Breech Loading Arms (Fourth Class) that was in effect in England at the time the Field article appeared would have been the London Proof Bill of 1868. It provided the compulsory standards for the provisional and definitive proving of barrels ans established a penalty of 20 pounds sterling for selling a gun with unproven barrels and possible imprisonment for anyone found guilty of forging the proof marks on barrels.

According to this act, the proof testing was compulsory and must be carried out in accordance with the following bores dimensions with the specified powder and shot charges for the provisional and definitive proof as specified. These laws were never passed in the US, but there is evidence that Parker was well aware of them from the fact that they used the correct loads for proof testing barrels. Bill Furnish and I found several Parker's that had 11 gauge bores but were listed as either 12ga or 10 ga guns in the Serialization. This is still a puzzle. Several of the early lifter hammer guns have a number stamped on the barrels that does not match the bore size. Some of the 11 bores are stamped 12 and others are marked 11 or 10. I am coming to suspect that they may have been tamped in Liege, Belgium when they were first given a provisional proof test before they were shipped to Parker. I would like to hear from others as to whether or not this idea makes any sense.


The Bore diameters as set forth in the 1868 proof act are as follows:

Bore Number

13 - 0.703" to 0.709
13/1 - 0.710" to 0.719"

12 - 0.720" to 0.729"
12/1 - 0.730" to 0.740"

11 - 0.741" to 0.751"
11/1 - 0.752" to 0.763"

10 - 0.764" to 0.775"
10/1 - 0.776" to 0.784"
10/2 - 0.785" to 0.793"

If the barrel was tapered, the diameter was to be measured 9 inches in front of the breech.


Richard,

[Richard B. Hoover]

Austin,

I would like to know your thoughts about the markings on the early Damascus barrels.
Several are marked C 12, C 10 or C 11, but the C looks a bit more like a left parenthesis ( than a C.

Any information about the meaning of these barrel marks would be greatly appreciated. I have given my idea above, but maybe someone has found some records or writings that give a clearer picture. Also, are these similar marks found on other very early guns by other makers?

Richard

[Austin W Hogan]

Richard; I have two $135 grades, a C10 and a C12. A good friend has a $250 grade C11. I think these barrels were purchased semi finished by Parker Bros before King joined as barrel contractor and superintendent. Note that many elevens appear in the 2000 serial , few in the threes, and fewer in the fours. This was probably due to King's beginning of successful barrel boring at Parker, but using up prior stock. Does anyone have an eleven with King's breech?
It should be noted that King's patent boring process tooling bored .750 bores in twelve ga from somewhere around s/n 5000 to 70000.

Best, Austin

[Richard B. Hoover]

Austin,

Do you have the chamber and bore dimensions of these $135 and $250 Parker's and the s/n. Also have you encountered any of these early lifter guns with full length tapered bores? I think this was done in an effort to produce a tighter pattern, but it apparently was not a success as it appears to have been done only for a short period of time sround 1874 as far as I know now. More measurements on early hammer guns wold be most interesting.

Thanks,

Richard