Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums  

Go Back   Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums Parker Forums Parker Restoration

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 02-15-2019, 01:45 PM   #21
Member
King Cobb
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Bill Holcombe's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,325
Thanks: 724
Thanked 1,521 Times in 405 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd allen View Post
Most of us are too old to wait three years for anything.
Then sell the gun and buy one that you don't have to wait to have restored.

I agree with others on this thread that this is getting ridiculous.

Brad did good work and was a perfectionist. That pursuit of perfection took time. The last time I had spoken with Brad he indicated Parker had taken over lead on the barrel refinishing and was an worse about the barrels being perfect then he ever was.

There are reasons guns take long a long time to be completed. The level of work required is a big part of that. I have a restoration project I will soon embark on with another talented individual and have been quoted 2-3 years for the total project. If you are having a barrel refinished it takes time, ribs relayed? more time, more than that.....even more time. Throw in Brad's sudden death and it gets even worse.

Dean you can't always go FIFO, Brad set up the process of doing the barrels in batches rather then doing barrels individually as they came in. He has said on this site the process works better that way for the barrels and for them from a business standpoint.

I am personally appreciative of the diligence involved, nothing would hack me off more then getting a nice set of barrels sent back to me only to see that after the 3 month intitial estimate there were issues with the refinish--as has happened with other barrel restorers....but heck you got your barrels back on time I guess.
__________________
"The Parker gun was the first and the greatest ever." Theophilus Nash Buckingham
Bill Holcombe is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Bill Holcombe For Your Post:
Unread 02-15-2019, 02:10 PM   #22
Member
edgarspencer
PGCA Member
 
edgarspencer's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,058
Thanks: 2,905
Thanked 11,399 Times in 3,074 Posts

Default

I think the original intent of the OP, the member who was pleased with work he received from Bachelders, was simply to state just that. If other's felt the same way with work they have gotten from the current Bachelder organization, it wouldn't be inappropriate to say as much.
However, I find it in very poor taste to both use the OP's post to argue points which are the opposite of his, and to disparage the work of the organization the OP refers to.
I can speak first hand to being thrust into a position I thought would never come, and to be under the microscope of those expecting me to pick up precisely where my father left off, as though nothing happened within the company, nor any traumatic loss within my own family, and especially to me.
I worked for a man who was arguably one of the best in providing a technically challenging product, from drawing, to finished product. These weren't widgets, but high strength alloy, and stainless steel castings used in power generation, oil and gas drilling, and surface and submarine building. What everyone assumes, almost always incorrectly, is that the father teaches as well as he performs. That I was able to succeed was because I was paying attention. Some people learn by hearing a description of how it's done, and others learn by watching it being done.
As a businessman, and individual, who had experienced this, I had several long conversations with Parker about loosing a father, and being immediately expected to fill his shoes.
I think almost all of us have had a project worked on by a gunsmith. Many of us have had too many projects to even remember, worked on, and were glad there was someone out there to take those projects on. I wouldn't even begin to guess how many of us demanding customers are out here, and then guess how few good gunsmiths there are to service our needs.
Any organization worth going to, is going to be expected to do precisely what the customer wants, with zero defects; within an often unrealistic time-frame, and at a price they want, and often negotiated downward. Delivering one or two out of the three features; price, quality and delivery, is as good as failure.
A lot of dust collects on the stack of guns in nearly all shops, and being a little guilty of what a lot of customers do, I have no right to bitch: Guilty of leaving a gun, saying 'no rush, when you get to it, tell me what you think" lots of those customers don't even know what they want, but expect the smith to read their mind.
I spoke with Brad about a project I wanted him to tackle. He was forthright in his time frame; 5-6 months. Then he died. It hasn't been a year, and both the company, and a customer visiting the company, have told me my project is nearly done.
I sent Brad a gun many years ago, to have barrels finished, and re-case harden frame, and ancillaries. I told Brad, over cocktails a few years ago, in Baltimore, How much I liked it, and he thanked me and pointed to his son, saying "He did the barrels.
edgarspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2019, 02:50 PM   #23
Member
todd allen
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,136
Thanks: 1,890
Thanked 3,249 Times in 1,125 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Holcombe View Post
Then sell the gun and buy one that you don't have to wait to have restored.

I agree with others on this thread that this is getting ridiculous.

Brad did good work and was a perfectionist. That pursuit of perfection took time. The last time I had spoken with Brad he indicated Parker had taken over lead on the barrel refinishing and was an worse about the barrels being perfect then he ever was.

There are reasons guns take long a long time to be completed. The level of work required is a big part of that. I have a restoration project I will soon embark on with another talented individual and have been quoted 2-3 years for the total project. If you are having a barrel refinished it takes time, ribs relayed? more time, more than that.....even more time. Throw in Brad's sudden death and it gets even worse.

Dean you can't always go FIFO, Brad set up the process of doing the barrels in batches rather then doing barrels individually as they came in. He has said on this site the process works better that way for the barrels and for them from a business standpoint.

I am personally appreciative of the diligence involved, nothing would hack me off more then getting a nice set of barrels sent back to me only to see that after the 3 month intitial estimate there were issues with the refinish--as has happened with other barrel restorers....but heck you got your barrels back on time I guess.
Let me clarify something. My comment was meant to be a humorous acknowledgement of our age. Not a slap at any of the gun smiths mentioned here.
I have the utmost respect for the Bachelder's organization, appreciate their work, and plan to use them sometime down the road.
I'm actually more impatient with waiting for the money to DO my projects, than the time it takes the 'smiths to do their work.
todd allen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to todd allen For Your Post:
Unread 02-15-2019, 02:54 PM   #24
Member
Big D
PGCA Member
 
John Dallas's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,284
Thanks: 462
Thanked 3,597 Times in 1,550 Posts

Default

The last time I was in Brad's shop, he lamented the fact that it was so hard to retain good craftsmen. Now, with his passing, there is one less set of hands in the shop, so I assume their capability has been reduced, unless Parker has been able to find others to fill his Dad's shoes, which ain't gonna happen.
__________________
"Striving to become the man my dog thinks I am"
John Dallas is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to John Dallas For Your Post:
Unread 02-15-2019, 02:55 PM   #25
Member
King Cobb
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Bill Holcombe's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,325
Thanks: 724
Thanked 1,521 Times in 405 Posts

Default

No problem Todd, I wasn't meaning to imply I was responding specifically to you.
__________________
"The Parker gun was the first and the greatest ever." Theophilus Nash Buckingham
Bill Holcombe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2019, 02:57 PM   #26
Member
King Cobb
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Bill Holcombe's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,325
Thanks: 724
Thanked 1,521 Times in 405 Posts

Default

Last I communicated with him he said part of the bottleneck involved getting barrel etching redone at the breech on barrels. He has a guy who does good work but Parker isn't the only one he does work for.
__________________
"The Parker gun was the first and the greatest ever." Theophilus Nash Buckingham
Bill Holcombe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2019, 03:33 PM   #27
Member
BRDHNTR
PGCA Lifetime
Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,745
Thanks: 7,185
Thanked 2,696 Times in 1,234 Posts

Default

You got that right Jay!
allen newell is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to allen newell For Your Post:
Unread 02-15-2019, 05:30 PM   #28
Member
Dean Romig
PGCA Invincible
Life Member
 
Dean Romig's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 31,562
Thanks: 35,442
Thanked 33,041 Times in 12,322 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Holcombe View Post
Dean you can't always go FIFO, Brad set up the process of doing the barrels in batches rather then doing barrels individually as they came in. He has said on this site the process works better that way for the barrels and for them from a business standpoint.

I am personally appreciative of the diligence involved, nothing would hack me off more then getting a nice set of barrels sent back to me only to see that after the 3 month intitial estimate there were issues with the refinish--as has happened with other barrel restorers....but heck you got your barrels back on time I guess.


Bill, I alluded to that kind of back-up in the barrel refinishing and color case harbening processes.

And the first set of Damascus barrels I sent to him for refinishing were unacceptable and I had to send them back to him twice. My point - everyone has to go through a learning process. It can be long and arduous. I liked Brad a lot and held him in the highest esteem and I think he liked me too and he knew I was a perfectionist.

It is not my intent to trash Bachelder Master Gunmaker but I do hope Parker or Lori read this thread if for no other reason than to know we all hope they overcome the many complications before them and our ongoing wish that they succeed.





.
__________________
"I'm a Setter man.
Not because I think they're better than the other breeds,
but because I'm a romantic - stuck on tradition - and to me, a Setter just "belongs" in the grouse picture."

George King, "That's Ruff", 2010 - a timeless classic.
Dean Romig is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Dean Romig For Your Post:
Unread 02-15-2019, 08:21 PM   #29
Member
Setter Man
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,791
Thanks: 1,705
Thanked 1,636 Times in 634 Posts

Default

My sense is they already feel a tremendous amount of stress because they understand their customers expectations and don’t want to disappoint or tarnish Brads reputation. They are doing the best they can under the circumstances. Personally, I hope they don’t read this thread. They know now much his work was appreciated and understand the obligations that are outstanding.
Jay Gardner is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Jay Gardner For Your Post:
Unread 02-15-2019, 08:27 PM   #30
Member
William Cawley
Forum Associate

Member Info
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 54 Times in 2 Posts

Default

My two cents. I too experienced delays and had a number of conversations with Parker and others at Bachelder's regarding my gun. It took longer than I had expected but found Parker to be doing everything he could to estimate time appropriately and deliver accordingly. I consider him to be doing a very admirable job considering what he and his family have recently experienced.

I posted the pictures to demonstrate that the work is still top notch and for me well worth the wait. I too am a businessman and I understand the arguments, all well made and on target as regards timing and meeting expectations. It also seems to me that sometimes we should make allowances... Of course it's our choice, but if we don't and they don't succeed that's one fewer option for us when we have need of expert service. Just one man's opinion.
William Cawley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2023, Parkerguns.org
Copyright © 2004 Design par Megatekno
- 2008 style update 3.7 avec l'autorisation de son auteur par Stradfred.