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Unread 03-29-2019, 01:15 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by john neal View Post
I got ya now, I would have assumed his process would be the same for all.
what Brain was trying to point out is on an A1 with so much engraving it's hard to see the colors vs a VH gun like Greg posted. But I think you already know that and just want to come on this board to stir the pot............... So please show us some of your guns that have been recased and who did them
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Unread 03-29-2019, 04:05 PM   #22
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I have used the Bachelder shop in MI for work on various SxS’s over the years with great satisfaction, however, when checking around recently about some trigger work on a M21, was told by respected source that the “senior” Bachelder had passed and the shop was not producing the high quality work that it did in past.
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Unread 03-29-2019, 04:12 PM   #23
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Yes, Brad passed, but his son Parker has been well schooled by his dad. Wait times may be longer due to having one less pair of skilled hands in the shop, but other than that, I've heard nothing bad.
BTW, Brad was the last person schooled in the Winchester Custom Shop. He knew his way around Winchesters. I carried in a M42 skeet gun with an ejection problem, he grabbed the gun, went behind the curtain and returned a out 3 minutes later with a perfectly functioning gun. What a guy!
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Unread 03-30-2019, 12:36 PM   #24
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Our dear old friend Charlie Price wrote an article for Parker Pages a few years back, in the Spring 2015 Issue titled "Parker Case Hardening Colors" and he provided several photos of examples of original case colors and some redone colors. It is a really good article and he was always so kind and generous to share his knowledge gained through a lifetime of personal experience.

It was incredibly easy to find this article on my Parker Pages Digital Archive that I have downloaded from the DVD to my PC. Incidentally, the PPDA is $50 to PGCA Members only and is not available to non-members.


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Unread 03-31-2019, 05:25 PM   #25
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Turnbull and Batchelder... Respectively...
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Unread 03-31-2019, 05:50 PM   #26
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This is a complex question (as many of this kind are). Since all existing, original Parker case hardening has aged a great deal, I think our idea of what Parker case hardening looked like "new" is educated conjecture at best. Comparing Turnbull or Bachelder colors is one thing, and maybe judging our preferences is as much about those preferences as anything else. They all look nice to me...original or not.
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Unread 04-07-2019, 11:37 AM   #27
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Case colors:

Left : CHE 16/28 1903 Bachelder colors 2016

Right : CHE 16/28 1910 original case colors
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Unread 04-07-2019, 11:50 AM   #28
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I support Garry's thoughts. When we are looking at "original" colors, we are actually looking at colors which are a hundred or so years old. Did they change over the last century? I don't think anyone can answer that
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Unread 04-07-2019, 04:13 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Day View Post
Case colors:

Left : CHE 16/28 1903 Bachelder colors 2016

Right : CHE 16/28 1910 original case colors
They look pretty darned similar...and beautiful.
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Unread 04-29-2019, 01:57 PM   #30
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Since I’ve been doing CCH here in the shop for the past 15 or so years, here are some notes and thoughts on Color Case Hardening:

1. It’s been brought up before, most original CCH is 80-100+ years old…which make it pretty hard to compare, colors fade/change.

2. I suspect that the surviving number of firearms with 80-100% factory CCH is in the 1-2% range, so very few examples to judge from.

3. Firearm companies, back in the day, did true Case Hardening, quenching at temperatures most restorers will never get close to. Back then there was an “acceptable” failure rate… I.e.. Warped or cracked frames. Somewhere in my notes I have that number for Winchester, and it was north of 10%. After 1903 Winchester stopped CCH frames because the failure rate was deemed too high. Restorers today don’t truly Case Harden the frame, unlike the large manufacturing companies, we have to have 0% failure rate, temperatures and processes are changed to reflect this.

4. Manufacturers also had the luxury of “virgin” receivers with soft steel. Restorers are working with metal that has been case hardened previously (some multiple times), has been in service for 100 + years, and oftentimes has had repairs (welds etc.). A good restorative color case hardener has to keep all of this in mind.

Not too long ago, I had an 1886 come into the shop, the owner recently had it recased (would not tell me by who). He snapped the butt plate trying to install it on the stock, and the frame was so warped that there was no way it could be reassembled. Looking at the steel, I could easily tell that it had been quenched at too high of a temperature, and more than likely into a brine quench solution (which cools quicker that water). I had to anneal the frame, then spend a couple of hours straightening the frame, make several blocks to keep the frame from moving, then a second annealing to get the frame to take the proper ”set”. Final CCH with the frame all blocked up so that it wouldn’t move, and follow up with a proper tempering.

Lots of thing to consider when judging Colors.
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