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German Mystery Gun “Ant. Bennsman”
Unread 07-30-2018, 06:21 AM   #1
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Joe Graziano
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Default German Mystery Gun “Ant. Bennsman”

https://imgur.com/a/hvECoAH

I recently purchased this German hammer shotgun at auction. It was inexpensive so I took a bit of a flyer on it but I really don’t know much about it. German guns other than Krieghoff are a mystery to me. A note with the gun mentioned they were an importer for Western Field, 1935-1945. If anyone can decipher the proof marks and stamps on the barrels and water table, it’s much appreciated. It’s a 16 gauge with 30 in barrels. sliver forend, and horn butt plate. The top rib is marked Ant. Bensmann Ludinghaussen I. Westf.
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Unread 07-30-2018, 07:46 AM   #2
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It is belgian, not german.

It has been refinished. Hot blued by the looks of it. Careful of those barrels.
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Unread 07-30-2018, 08:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dudley View Post
It is belgian, not german.

It has been refinished. Hot blued by the looks of it. Careful of those barrels.
Brian,

I know that hot blue of double barrels can cause problems with the solder joints but:
1) How can a novas gun person tell a hot blue job from a cold blue job?

2) As in this case, how would one evaluate if a hot blue job did indeed harm the barrels or that they came through unscathed?
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Unread 07-30-2018, 08:14 AM   #4
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on most European guns- the country of origin proof marks are pretty easy to recognize-
max loads and date id's take some study- but, it would seem that having the basics would be a good idea for folks who like these old guns

some starting points

http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html
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Unread 07-30-2018, 09:47 AM   #5
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I'm not convinced the barrels are hot blued. The underside photos certainly don't exhibit the black, shiny finish I would expect to see on a hot blued surface. Whatever the case, the 'ring' test will give you a pretty good idea of the soundness of soldered joint integrity.
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Unread 07-30-2018, 10:12 AM   #6
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Thanks for the info thus far. The proof information is great. Thank you for posting. I will certainly ensure the barrels are sound before shooting. While I’ve yet to find info on Bennsman as a gunmaker, even today Bennsman is a fairly common name in Ludinghaussen, Germany in the current German state of North Rhine-Westfalia. That seems to make sense regarding the rib inscription. I will spend more time attempting to decipher all the stamps, which are absolutely Belgian. Ludinghaussen is not far from the border. Would a German maker have sent a gun to Liege for proof? From what I can tell, it seems to have been made during the Weimar Republic years, in 1926.
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Unread 07-30-2018, 12:02 PM   #7
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Liege makers supplied guns for dealers all over the world.
The lettre annale is indeed 1926
16.9 & 16.8 are the bores in mm.
It carries Smokeless Proof.
The chambers are 65mm = 2 1/2"
I've not seen that stylized 'P' - it could be Pire
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge...0pire%20gb.htm


Last edited by Drew Hause; 07-30-2018 at 12:25 PM..
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Less of a Mystery Now
Unread 07-30-2018, 01:54 PM   #8
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Default Less of a Mystery Now

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your excellent information. This is fascinating and a lot of fun. I think we have this mystery 90% solved. This gun matches the J Pire ad exactly. From what you have sent me and what I could find, I have a:

-"Fusil Buffalo" 16 gauge hammer shotgun with 30 in barrels

-Manufactured by Jules Pire and Company, 10 rue Van Ertborn, Antwerp, Belgium

-Year of manufacture is 1926 (script "e")

-It was made for the seller, Ant. Bensmann, Ludinghaussen, Westfalia, Germany (inscribed on top rib)

-Chambers are 2 1/2 in. (in sideways omega looking sign, along with gauge)

-Chokes are not exactly easy to decipher but this is my best guess. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The right barrel is only marked with the bore diameter, 16.9. This appears reasonable for a 16 gauge. The left is marked 16.9 CHOKE 16.8. I'm not sure how to do the conversions but I would guess this makes it cylinder in the right barrel and I/C in the left.

-Nitro proofed (stick figure animal over P.V)

-Provisional proof ("euro" looking sign intertwined with "British pound" looking sign

-Conformity with German proof law (crown with bubble below)

-Barrels with 1 kg 359

-Proof of breach system (perron)

-Controller of proof codes, Hubert Charlier 1923-53 (U with a * over)

-Remaining mysteries: stylized large "P" on barrels, 98 and 99 on water table, 98 on lug, 99 on barrel flats, on the barrel flats between the "e" and "PV" stamps, a small "P" with a * above.

Much thanks for your help!

Joe
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Unread 07-30-2018, 04:49 PM   #9
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I typed the Fusil Buffalo ad into Google translate, understanding this is not the best, and learned a couple additional things. Standard barrel length was 27.5 inches. This must have been special ordered with 30 inch tubes. A buyer could also order with custom wood at no extra charge with a 65-day delivery time. It also came with "canons acier fin, bronzes noir brilliant", which I assume refers to shiny black barrels?
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Unread 07-30-2018, 05:39 PM   #10
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I think I have figured out the strange looking P or J, as a few have described. It's an intertwined J and P, depending on which way you look at it. I assume for "Jules Pire". One way, it's a P. Flip it upside down, It's a J.
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