Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums  

Go Back   Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums Non-Parker Specific & General Discussions Shotgun Shell Reloading

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Red Dot suitable for 20 ga loads?
Unread 01-23-2018, 10:38 PM   #1
Member
BRDHNTR
PGCA Lifetime
Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,745
Thanks: 7,176
Thanked 2,695 Times in 1,233 Posts

Default Red Dot suitable for 20 ga loads?

Is Red Dot suitable for 20 ga reloads or should I use Green Dot?
allen newell is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-23-2018, 10:56 PM   #2
Member
StubTwist
PGCA Member
 
Frank Cronin's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 978
Thanks: 6,180
Thanked 1,601 Times in 483 Posts

Default

Allan, I would go with a different powder. Have you checked the Alliant online reloader's guide? Alliant 20/28 is very good from what I have heard. I personally use Longshot and 800X for my 20 gauge loads.
Frank Cronin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Cronin For Your Post:
Unread 01-23-2018, 11:02 PM   #3
Member
BRDHNTR
PGCA Lifetime
Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,745
Thanks: 7,176
Thanked 2,695 Times in 1,233 Posts

Default

Thanks Frank, I'll check the online guide
allen newell is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-24-2018, 10:03 AM   #4
Member
Gary Laudermilch
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,327
Thanks: 3,037
Thanked 2,099 Times in 673 Posts

Default

I doubt you will find published data for Red Dot in a 20. I am assuming you desire to load 7/8 oz.

Years ago I did extensive pattern testing of 8's through chokes ranging from cylinder through .012 or Lt. Mod. I tested 800x, Unique, Universal, 20/28(which was new at the time), Green Dot, and Winchester WSF. I also tested International but discarded it because of the pressures it generates. Shortly thereafter Alliant pulled all of their 7/8 oz Green Dot loads from their published data citing erratic pressures in some load combinations. Regardless the load, I never achieved anywhere near suitable results through cylinder choked guns (4 tested). I did achieve the most consistent results through chokes .006-.012 but never tested any chokes tighter than that. The criteria I used to make my decision was clean/complete burn, pattern consistency and repeatability, velocity consistency, load metering through a Mec 9000, hull life, and availability. My results were 1)WSF, 2)20/28, 3)Universal, 4)Unique, and 5) 800x.

Since then I have loaded close to 70,000 WSF shells and have had not one problem through all temperatures. Even during the powder shortage I was able to locate WSF with a bit of searching.

My current load:
Remington STS hull
Win 209 primer
Claybuster 1078-20 wad
7/8 oz of Eagle magnum 8's
16.7 gr. WSF
Velocity at approx. 1175 and pressure in the low 10k range.

Hope this helps.
Gary Laudermilch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gary Laudermilch For Your Post:
Unread 01-24-2018, 11:21 AM   #5
Member
Bill Murphy
PGCA Lifetime
Member Since
Second Grade

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 15,524
Thanks: 6,118
Thanked 8,783 Times in 4,718 Posts

Default

I have used Unique for tens of thousands of 20 gauge loads for decades. I used these loads on two trips to the NSSA World Shoot in 1990 and 1992 and never missed a 20 gauge bird. Green Dot and Red Dot are not suitable for 20 gauge 7/8 ounce loads because of high pressures. The burn rate is too fast for the smaller bore.
Bill Murphy is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bill Murphy For Your Post:
Unread 01-24-2018, 12:35 PM   #6
Member
Woodcock survey
PGCA Member
 
Daniel Carter's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 964
Thanks: 1,292
Thanked 1,386 Times in 594 Posts

Default

If the load is not currently listed in the powder manufacturer's guide do not use it. Stick with that and you will not go wrong.
Daniel Carter is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daniel Carter For Your Post:
Unread 01-24-2018, 04:59 PM   #7
Member
Gary Laudermilch
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,327
Thanks: 3,037
Thanked 2,099 Times in 673 Posts

Default

I was simply passing along information gained from 6 months of pattern testing and statistical analysis of over 220 patterns. My choice for best was based on [my] parameters, some of which are subjective. Yours may be different.
Gary Laudermilch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gary Laudermilch For Your Post:
Unread 01-25-2018, 02:17 AM   #8
Member
6pt-Sika
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
CraigThompson's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,502
Thanks: 5,493
Thanked 7,458 Times in 3,383 Posts

Default

Unique is the better choice in my ALWAYS biased opinion !

I use Unique in the 12 , 16 , 20 and 28 with more then adequate results in them all .
CraigThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CraigThompson For Your Post:
Unread 01-25-2018, 02:20 AM   #9
Member
6pt-Sika
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
CraigThompson's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,502
Thanks: 5,493
Thanked 7,458 Times in 3,383 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Laudermilch View Post
I doubt you will find published data for Red Dot in a 20. I am assuming you desire to load 7/8 oz.

Years ago I did extensive pattern testing of 8's through chokes ranging from cylinder through .012 or Lt. Mod. I tested 800x, Unique, Universal, 20/28(which was new at the time), Green Dot, and Winchester WSF. I also tested International but discarded it because of the pressures it generates. Shortly thereafter Alliant pulled all of their 7/8 oz Green Dot loads from their published data citing erratic pressures in some load combinations. Regardless the load, I never achieved anywhere near suitable results through cylinder choked guns (4 tested). I did achieve the most consistent results through chokes .006-.012 but never tested any chokes tighter than that. The criteria I used to make my decision was clean/complete burn, pattern consistency and repeatability, velocity consistency, load metering through a Mec 9000, hull life, and availability. My results were 1)WSF, 2)20/28, 3)Universal, 4)Unique, and 5) 800x.

Since then I have loaded close to 70,000 WSF shells and have had not one problem through all temperatures. Even during the powder shortage I was able to locate WSF with a bit of searching.

My current load:
Remington STS hull
Win 209 primer
Claybuster 1078-20 wad
7/8 oz of Eagle magnum 8's
16.7 gr. WSF
Velocity at approx. 1175 and pressure in the low 10k range.

Hope this helps.
Over 25 years ago I used 473AA in the 20 gauge exclusively then Winchester in their infinite wisdom saw fit to do away with 473AA and bring out WSF . After that I used about 40 pounds of WSF in the 16 and 20 gauges . But back then I was devoted almost exclusively to WIN products . Of your list I keep and use 3 of the 5 on your list, never tried 20/28 and never cared for 800X .
CraigThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CraigThompson For Your Post:
Unread 01-25-2018, 05:15 PM   #10
Member
J.B. Books
PGCA Member
 
Pete Lester's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,857
Thanks: 1,639
Thanked 4,793 Times in 1,365 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Carter View Post
If the load is not currently listed in the powder manufacturer's guide do not use it. Stick with that and you will not go wrong.
Well if all of us had done that in years past we wouldn't have many 2 7/8" 10ga loads to pick from, just saying...............
__________________
Progress is the mortal enemy of the Outdoorsman.
Pete Lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2023, Parkerguns.org
Copyright © 2004 Design par Megatekno
- 2008 style update 3.7 avec l'autorisation de son auteur par Stradfred.