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Unread 03-12-2016, 03:29 PM   #31
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Brian, I found that using a pointed object for the scribed line can possibly chip the stock finish at the end of the stock. I put blue painters tape on the bottom of the pad, mount the pad and use a fine pen to make the outline. Remove the pad, cut off excess tape and grind to the line. The sander sands the tape along with the pad and it makes seeing the line easy.
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Unread 03-13-2016, 09:34 AM   #32
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Good advice from Brian.
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Unread 03-13-2016, 09:45 AM   #33
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Another note is that if you are making a new stock or refinishing an old stock where sanding of the butt is involved. it is a good method to grind the pad down close as i previously described and then do the final finishing of the pad when on the stock and also sanding the wood. Using a sanding block. This will provide an even surface from wood to pad.

This will also work best if using a pad that sands well by hand, such as the silvers and some of the other vintage pads.

A lot of modern pads do not finish too well by hand. Kick-eez pads finish great in the power grinding phase and finish ok by hand. Pachmyer pads are not all that great and limbsaver pads or horrible. Using oil for lubricant can help.
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Unread 03-13-2016, 01:29 PM   #34
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I'm going to have Dan Cullity install the new Hawkins pad that I have received. Talked with Dan the other day and going to bring to 20 ga Trojan that I just purchased from Mark Kircher to Dan tomorrow. Will also have Dan remove the frame from the stock and give it a good cleaning, the safety slides very sluggishly and I suspect there's a bit of crud or whatever built up. Neither Mark nor I believe the frame has been off the stock for many years so a good cleaning is in order and prudent. I'll be able to take the stock home along with the forend and strip it in acetone and give it a good finish. Eventually I'll have Brad re-case color this Trojan so when I give it to my second grandson he'll have what will look like a new gun and will appreciate it even more (of course after Papa explains the facts of life about proper gun handling and gun care.) I found my old belt sander that I earlier thought was long gone (it still works) but without the bracket I don't dare trying to take down the Hawkins pad. Hence Dan will do it. I want to thank everyone who contributed to this threat that I started and especially Brian who's advice and guidance to all the contributors has been spot on.
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Don't Try This At Home
Unread 03-25-2016, 08:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Murphy View Post
Brian, what's you opinion of fitting a pad, on the gun, with some tape on the wood?
I realize Bill's question was directed towards Brian, but was regarding a tape method I described, so Yesterday's outing was timely.
Walter Eisserer completed an 8 (EIGHT) year apprentice program in Austria, before coming to the US, to spend 20 years with Griffin & Howe (and concurrently working at Continental Arms on weekends) and then worked for Gary Herman for 15 years, until Safari Outfitters closed in Ridgefield, CT. I put Walter in the Judson Darrow, Joe Jurjevic category. Sadly, he is closing up and moving to way-upstate NY to live with his son. I can't image how long it will take him to pack up his shop.

The installation of the pad, shown in the photos, took less than 15 minutes, from the first picture to the last picture. This pad was then coming off the gun for a full pigskin cover. In the case of pads not leather covered, it goes on once, and is not removed for hand work. This works for Walter because of his experience, but may not be true of all.

As Chuck stated, Walter also uses a disc sander. Note this machine, in the pictures is not what you see today, as it has no table, just a guard at the bottom edge of the wheel. He bought this machine from Continental when they closed. As he stated, the only good method, and tool to use is one where you can see the stock and the tool at the same time. Using a belt sander means either the tool is blocking your view of the point where it is sanding the stock, or, if the belt sander is clamped with the belt on the upper side, the stock is blocking the view. Likewise, using a powered, vertical belt sander, means the stock is still between you and the belt, and you can not see how close you are getting.
Using a disc sander, where you are able to look at the stock - tool interface is Walter's only method, though he says you can use a vertical belt, if you stand to the side of the machine. Notice that he holds the stock in both hands, and does not rest the stock on the machine's table.

He took the pad ( Packmeyer is his choice only when they get covered in pigskin) right down to the taped surface, then hand sanded, starting with 120, and going to 400.

The gun he was doing, and the other of a pair, were $30,000 worth of Perrazis, but he had two Hollands on the bench to do next. He explained that when he does pads, he does all at the same time, and had, that I could count, eight to do that day.

What I've described, and shown, is one man's method, and doesn't make another man's method better or worse. That I believe he is the most skilled gunsmith I have ever been permitted to watch (for many hours, and over a 40 year span) has nothing to do with it.
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Unread 03-25-2016, 08:42 AM   #36
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Thanks Edgar, interesting. I know Craig Libhart does it the same way but these guys have years of experience.

I recently tried another way to get the pad fitted to the butt after getting it close to the final shape. Once it's close, I mounted the pad and used electrical tape on the wood. Hand sanding with a block is difficult and time consuming and trying to get the hard plate of the pad down to the wood without cutting through the tape and scratching the stock is difficult. What I did was loosen the screws of the pad enough that I could insert a spacer of maybe 1/4" and tighten the screws to the spacer. That left a gap where I could sand the hard pad of the stock at a slight angle with the sanding block. Just bevel a little at a time, take the block out and check the fit. Keep doing this until it matches. Worked like a charm!
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Unread 03-25-2016, 09:10 AM   #37
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Chuck, your method makes good sense. Walter has way more confidence (and guts) than I ever could have and takes the pad down to with a few thousands of an inch, and does only a few minutes of hand sanding. He has a new tape that he bemoans not having been invented till he decided to fully retire. It is some space age material that resists sanding abrasion, so he can actually sand right on top of it.
My dad and I spent alternating Thursday nights going to Safari, and those nights, Walter also worked till the 8pm closing (often even later) One particular night my dad took back an upgraded two barrel Parker that started life as a VHE 28, but ended up a John Warren highly engraved 28, with a Joe Jurjevic set of 38-55WCF barrels. My dad merely mentioned he might have liked the gun more if it was a straight stocked gun (he never even shot the rifle barrels) Walter disappeared with the receiver, went down stairs and ran it thru the bandsaw, and by closing had a shaped, checkered, and one coat of finish. He had also extended the trigger bow, and only needed to blue that.
Part of his work in Ferlach was hand making springs for sidelocks. He did a wonderful job reworking the locks on my 26" grade two, and has promised to do the same to my 30". Those springs are like butter.
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Unread 03-25-2016, 01:21 PM   #38
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I have correspondence between me and Joe Jurjevic about doing the rifle conversion on my 28 gauge Parker, probably from the seventies. He was quite the talent. We never agreed on the project. I remember ascending the stairway to the second floor at Continintal Arms when I was just a kid, but, unfortunately, never met any of the gunsmiths. I wonder if I ever met Edgar there? I wonder what happened to the John Warren, Joe Jurjevic 28 gauge Parker?
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Unread 03-25-2016, 03:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Murphy View Post
I wonder if I ever met Edgar there?
If you did, you would remember

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Murphy View Post
I wonder what happened to the John Warren, Joe Jurjevic 28 gauge Parker?
I asked Gary one time and he couldn't remember. Probably it went into that black hole with my BHE 20
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Unread 03-25-2016, 07:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bishop View Post
Hand sanding with a block is difficult and time consuming and trying to get the hard plate of the pad down to the wood without cutting through the tape and scratching the stock is difficult.
I meant to point out something that was very subtle, watching him work. Look closely, in the fourth picture, at his left thumb. Each time he wood put the stock to the wheel, he would keep the stock turning; never stopping in one spot until he took it away from the wheel. After each 'pass' he would check it for closeness with his thumb. He works so quickly and efficiently, it was hard to absorb it all in a single fitting. I didn't take anymore pictures after the first stock he worked on, but watched him do two more. I'm continually in awe when I get to watch a real craftsman.
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