Debate between rolled engraving and hand engraving

[joe breda]

Hmmmmmmm, I have heard that the Repro's were all rolled engraved and I also heard that there was some hand engraving.
I wanted to know exactly what, was, what. I have an electronic microscope so I checked the engraving out.

I believe there are a few ways to embellish firearm metals, and other metals for that matter.( Hand engrave by just pushing the graver, Hand engrave with graver and mallet assist, Hand engrave with pneumatic assist, CNC machined engraving, Rolled and/or Pressed engraving, acid-etchings, and probably there may be more methods to embellish the metal with figure ?

I believe with magnification one can make a reasonable explanation on just how the embellishment process was accomplished. Each process will have tell tale traces.

Now let’s weed the garden some and put into categories:
a. hand engravings (HE) “Using the skill of one’s free-hand only”
b. rolled and/or, pressed (R&P) “Mechanical”
c. CnC (CNC) “Programmed & machined”
d. Acid-Etched (A-E) “Could be by one’s free hand or an automated process”

Now let’s break down what each would expect to look like under magnification:
a. (HE) Un-even depths and widths, Chine/faceted, sharp/pointed tapering entries or exits, saw-tooth edges, or/and all of the above, lastly NO two 100% exactly alike.
b. (R&P) Relatively even depths with few anomalies, Relatively even widths, Fairly precise arks / lines / circles, and may see some wash-out areas due to misalignments, and possible misalignments around screws. Every embellishment is precisely the same, relative to itself.
c. (CNC) Circular Machine marks inside engraving, Fairly equal depths and widths, and every embellishment is precisely the same, relative to itself.
d. (A&E) Pitting and porous look to it. Every embellishment could be precisely the same, relative to itself, or, NO two could be alike.

To my pleasant surprise, I believe quite a bit of the Repro I have was hand engraved. (DHE 28 ga)
I come to this conclusion considering the characteristics described above.
Through my observation I believe:
1. All the game scenes were hand engraved (Dog grasses, birds brush)
2. All the borders were hand engraved
3. The 2 knuckles and their borders were hand engraved.
4. Most all of the scroll engraving is rolled (Except on the knuckles)... Also there is some hand engraving within the rolled engraving to enhance it !
5. The forearm metal was all hand engraved.
6. Butt plate metal was all hand engraved.
7. Scrolling on the Trigger guard was rolled with some hand engraving.
8. All the engraved screws were hand engraved

Attached is a pic of the close up of my DHE hand engraving and Rolled engraving, and some pics of an Original DHE engraving. The Original was quite worn so it is difficult in some places to see all of the anomalies described above pertaining to Hand Engraving.

This is only my opinion, and I may be wrong?
If I am wrong, where and why am I wrong?

Cheers,
JoeB

[Bill Murphy]

I guess I could follow your reasoning a bit better if you would identify which of your pictures refer to which style of engraving and which are original and which are not.

[Dean Romig]

All of my DHE Reproductions are computer-program machine engraved with some "HE" embellished refinements. I find it very hard to imagine that so many (some 10,000 or so) DHE's might be "quite a bit" "HE" and be so exactly alike. Just my opinion.

[ch]

I like them all. But I will say there is something about hand made by a master craftsman a machine can't copy.

[joe breda]

Bill Murphy,
From top, left to right 11 are Repro, with the 10 & 11 being the rolled/pressed/CnC I believe,
The last 5 are Original embelishments.
The jpg I loaded was a high resolution, and I could send you the original file so you could zoom it up to see more detail, if you would like to study it closer? It was a 5meg original file but it posted as a 500K file. If you were to open the original, it would fill your screen and you would be able to cleary see it in high detail and identify the difference which clearly stands out. The posted pic doesnt show the detail I was speaking of.
Cheers,
JoeB

[joe breda]

Also, if you left click on the pic above, you will get some zoom and will see it clearer !
Cheers,
JoeB

[joe breda]

These two embelishment are from my Repro.
The one on the left is a magnified shot from the knuckle area.
The one on the right is from the flat side of the reciever, some of the scroll embelishment.
Definately was 2 different methods used !

[Bill Murphy]

OK, now we know which of the pictures are of the Repro and that you feel that 10 and 11 are pressed, rolled, or CNC. What are the first nine? Are they the ones you feel are hand engraved?

[joe breda]

Yes, 1 through 9 I believe were hand engraved, Posibly with a phuematic graver. I have been told they are much faster to use than just pushing the graver or malet tapping the graver ? Also the last five are of an old worn original DHE 12ga, so the edges of the engraving is somewhat polished/burnished, so to speak.
1 through 9 look a lot closer to the original than 10 and 11, if you study them for awhile and consider they are done at least 50 years apart, the original has a lot more wear and the reciver is white, no color case left either.

[Bruce Day]

Joe, wouldn't it be simpler to just ask Richard Skeuse? He and his father built the guns and he is on here frequently.